1. The First Amendment is not absolute. There are limits, especially around assault and harassment. There are always going to be discussions around what that means and where the limits are.
2. and 3. are related. How many literally existential wars has Israel fought since 1949? And who were they fighting? Buddhists? Catholics? How much of the disputed territory Israel holds came after winning those wars? When countries fight wars, they traditionally demonize the enemy. So it isn't surprising they tend to look down on some of their neighbors. At the same time they have been pretty open to allowing peaceful Muslims to join their society.

BlackGold said:

---

Then why do folks like Mark Levin and Ben Shapiro advocate for censorship of dissenting views, dehumanize entire countries' populations and scapegoat all of Israel's problems on "evil Muslims"?

---

Some examples of their calls for censorship, dehumanization and scapegoating?

Is it possible they criticize the death cult within the Muslim culture and you have categorized these statements incorrectly?

bobbranco said:

---

BlackGold said:

---

Then why do folks like Mark Levin and Ben Shapiro advocate for censorship of dissenting views, dehumanize entire countries' populations and scapegoat all of Israel's problems on "evil Muslims"?

---

Some examples of their calls for censorship, dehumanization and scapegoating?

Is it possible they criticize the death cult within the Muslim culture and you have categorized these statements incorrectly?

---

The pro-Palestine, anti-Jewish State of Israel crowd are nothing but blind, ignorant NPCs easily influenced by NGO propaganda funded by USAID and the like.

4 years ago they would have laid down their keyboards and jointed arm in arm to save the Jews in Ukraine. Heavy brain-washing since October 7th attacks combined with Trump resurgence have left them hating Israel in order to get their Orange Man Bad fix.

BlackGold said:

---

Imagine pretending you have the moral upper hand when you think killing civilians and children, who effectively live in a WWII-style Nazi ghetto, is ok and in fact, necessary. Not to mention the hospital workers and foreign journalists and aid workers who get murdered for just being there.

From the National WWII Museum on Ghettos: These enclosed, heavily guarded city districts forced Jewish populations to live in overcrowded, unsanitary conditions under threat of execution. The ghettos served as stepping stones to extermination camps.

Seems almost identical to Gaza. Horrible living conditions, over crowded, heavily guarded, restricted movement, control of food and water supply, control of humanitarian aid, will murder you if you leave certain zones or break curfews...

---

No one thinks killing women and children is ok and necessary (except Hamas apparently). They are placing the blame on the correct entity - Hamas. Hamas started this war on October 7th, where, as a reminder, they murdered over 1000 Israeli civilians and kidnapped more. Hamas continued the war by not surrendering and giving up the civilian hostages they held. Hamas caused the lives of innocent Palestinians to be in danger by using them as human shields.

As tragic as the situation is, Hamas is 100% responsible for every single death that's happened. And yet our anti Israel brigade strangely continues to forget those facts.

LMCane said:

---

---

This is ****ing awesome. What/where is this from? I need to see more.

FWTXAg said:

---

We have Israeli assets on this board. Both paid and voluntary. They are among us.

Jewish people, good. Zionists/Israel first Americans, bad.

---

I can be pro-Israel and not Israel first. They are not mutually exclusive positions. But I guess it's easier to paint people as "assets" any time you want to disagree with them without actually engaging with facts.

Ervin Burrell said:

---

For the 500th time, it's utterly unreal to watch a group of people who (rightly) make fun of the left for crying "racism!" all the time proclaim anybody who questions Israel a "joo hater." Brainwashing works both ways I suppose.

---

You can question Israel all you want. Not all criticisms are created equal. When your criticism is premised on the idea that Israel is a subversive actor that seeks to undermine the interests of the United States and that anybody that supports the state of Israel doesn't put the interests of our country first, you are not engaging in honest criticism. You're making an an emotional argument based on your personal disdain for Israel or the Jews. There's plenty of folks on this board who openly admit that.

If you want to say "this Israel policy is bad," go ahead. If you want to say that Israel is an enemy that controls us, which is verifiably false, you are operating outside the domain of reality. Call it anti-semitism or whatever you want. At the end of the day, it's just stupidity.

BlackGold said:

---

Kvetch said:

---

FWTXAg said:

---

We have Israeli assets on this board. Both paid and voluntary. They are among us.

Jewish people, good. Zionists/Israel first Americans, bad.

---

I can be pro-Israel and not Israel first. They are not mutually exclusive positions. But I guess it's easier to paint people as "assets" any time you want to disagree with them without actually engaging with facts.

---

Just like you can be anti-Israeli government and not be an antisemite, Hamas/Iran supporter, CM or a lib.

---

Sure, but it depends on what the source of your dislike is and what your alternative approach to our ally entails. Just like someone could theoretically be Israel first because they're an "asset." However, one of those situations are much more prevalent than the other, despite the beliefs of those who say Israel is an enemy.

Agree with the take that if one wants to be "anti-Israeli government" they should describe their specific disdain.

I think it's clear when one says "I oppose us providing military and or monetary aid to Israel" or if one says "I believe Israel must reach a ceasefire with Lebanon or limit their attacks to defense only".

But when it's "Mossad controls Trump and has us bombing Tehran for them because of Epstein and aliens" then you are venturing into an area that starts to feel like it's more than policy and is about Israel controlling the United States, which is not a policy but a conspiracy theory 100% rooted in antisemitism.

Kvetch said:

---

FWTXAg said:

---

We have Israeli assets on this board. Both paid and voluntary. They are among us.

Jewish people, good. Zionists/Israel first Americans, bad.

---

I can be pro-Israel and not Israel first. They are not mutually exclusive positions. But I guess it's easier to paint people as "assets" any time you want to disagree with them without actually engaging with facts.

---

It's strange for you to even assume that was directed towards you specifically lol

However as an American, there is legitimately zero reason to be "Pro" any other Country. They all operate in their own self-interest, they're all just giant businesses after-all.

FWTXAg said:

---

Kvetch said:

---

FWTXAg said:

---

We have Israeli assets on this board. Both paid and voluntary. They are among us.

Jewish people, good. Zionists/Israel first Americans, bad.

---

I can be pro-Israel and not Israel first. They are not mutually exclusive positions. But I guess it's easier to paint people as "assets" any time you want to disagree with them without actually engaging with facts.

---

It's strange for you to even assume that was directed towards you specifically lol

However as an American, there is legitimately zero reason to be "Pro" any other Country. They all operate in their own self-interest, they're all just giant businesses after-all.

---

That's a very weird statement. There's plenty of reasons to be "pro" other countries. The reasons can be for any sort of positive attribute. You could be pro-Korean for their respect for older generations, you could be pro-Germany for their past culture of great engineering, you could be pro-Switzerland for the natural beauty, etc. There are plenty of reasons to be pro-Israel or any other country that don't take anything away from being American first.

Phatbob said:

---

FWTXAg said:

---

Kvetch said:

---

FWTXAg said:

---

We have Israeli assets on this board. Both paid and voluntary. They are among us.

Jewish people, good. Zionists/Israel first Americans, bad.

---

I can be pro-Israel and not Israel first. They are not mutually exclusive positions. But I guess it's easier to paint people as "assets" any time you want to disagree with them without actually engaging with facts.

---

It's strange for you to even assume that was directed towards you specifically lol

However as an American, there is legitimately zero reason to be "Pro" any other Country. They all operate in their own self-interest, they're all just giant businesses after-all.

---

That's a very weird statement. There's plenty of reasons to be "pro" other countries. The reasons can be for any sort of positive attribute. You could be pro-Korean for their respect for older generations, you could be pro-Germany for their past culture of great engineering, you could be pro-Switzerland for the natural beauty, etc. There are plenty of reasons to be pro-Israel or any other country that don't take anything away from being American first.

---

"America First" is just the label the anti-Israel/Jew groups have assigned to themselves to make themselves sound more mainstream.

And their goals for an "ideal America" would repeat 80 year old history.

Phatbob said:

---

FWTXAg said:

---

Kvetch said:

---

FWTXAg said:

---

We have Israeli assets on this board. Both paid and voluntary. They are among us.

Jewish people, good. Zionists/Israel first Americans, bad.

---

I can be pro-Israel and not Israel first. They are not mutually exclusive positions. But I guess it's easier to paint people as "assets" any time you want to disagree with them without actually engaging with facts.

---

It's strange for you to even assume that was directed towards you specifically lol

However as an American, there is legitimately zero reason to be "Pro" any other Country. They all operate in their own self-interest, they're all just giant businesses after-all.

---

That's a very weird statement. There's plenty of reasons to be "pro" other countries. The reasons can be for any sort of positive attribute. You could be pro-Korean for their respect for older generations, you could be pro-Germany for their past culture of great engineering, you could be pro-Switzerland for the natural beauty, etc. There are plenty of reasons to be pro-Israel or any other country that don't take anything away from being American first.

---

Oh. You mean "Pro" as in finding positives or the bright side in other Countries and their people.

Then yeah, you can literally find positives in every single Country to ever exist, including Israel.

Mega Lops said:

---

The BEST Canard

---

Is that Darkwing Duck?

FWTXAg said:

---

Phatbob said:

---

FWTXAg said:

---

Kvetch said:

---

FWTXAg said:

---

We have Israeli assets on this board. Both paid and voluntary. They are among us.

Jewish people, good. Zionists/Israel first Americans, bad.

---

I can be pro-Israel and not Israel first. They are not mutually exclusive positions. But I guess it's easier to paint people as "assets" any time you want to disagree with them without actually engaging with facts.

---

It's strange for you to even assume that was directed towards you specifically lol

However as an American, there is legitimately zero reason to be "Pro" any other Country. They all operate in their own self-interest, they're all just giant businesses after-all.

---

That's a very weird statement. There's plenty of reasons to be "pro" other countries. The reasons can be for any sort of positive attribute. You could be pro-Korean for their respect for older generations, you could be pro-Germany for their past culture of great engineering, you could be pro-Switzerland for the natural beauty, etc. There are plenty of reasons to be pro-Israel or any other country that don't take anything away from being American first.

---

Oh. You mean "Pro" as in finding positives or the bright side in other Countries and their people.

Then yeah, you can literally find positives in every single Country to ever exist, including Israel.

---

There's also being "pro" other countries in a selfish way. There are countries that share our interests more than others, and some that we compete with for resources or ideology which we would not be "pro". No matter what the extreme isolationists on this board want to believe it, getting ourselves out of the international stage has very few upsides and a whole lot of down sides. So yes, you can be "pro" other countries and still just be a selfish narcissist.

Kvetch said:

---

FWTXAg said:

---

We have Israeli assets on this board. Both paid and voluntary. They are among us.

Jewish people, good. Zionists/Israel first Americans, bad.

---

I can be pro-Israel and not Israel first. They are not mutually exclusive positions. But I guess it's easier to paint people as "assets" any time you want to disagree with them without actually engaging with facts.

---

Stop kvetching. You schmuck.

Yiddish is fun.

FWTXAg said:

---

Kvetch said:

---

FWTXAg said:

---

We have Israeli assets on this board. Both paid and voluntary. They are among us.

Jewish people, good. Zionists/Israel first Americans, bad.

---

I can be pro-Israel and not Israel first. They are not mutually exclusive positions. But I guess it's easier to paint people as "assets" any time you want to disagree with them without actually engaging with facts.

---

It's strange for you to even assume that was directed towards you specifically lol

However as an American, there is legitimately zero reason to be "Pro" any other Country. They all operate in their own self-interest, they're all just giant businesses after-all.

---

I was using the first person in a broader sense. I wasn't implying your comment was directed at me.

BlackGold said:

---

Kvetch said:

---

BlackGold said:

---

Kvetch said:

---

FWTXAg said:

---

We have Israeli assets on this board. Both paid and voluntary. They are among us.

Jewish people, good. Zionists/Israel first Americans, bad.

---

I can be pro-Israel and not Israel first. They are not mutually exclusive positions. But I guess it's easier to paint people as "assets" any time you want to disagree with them without actually engaging with facts.

---

Just like you can be anti-Israeli government and not be an antisemite, Hamas/Iran supporter, CM or a lib.

---

Sure, but it depends on what the source of your dislike is and what your alternative approach to our ally entails. Just like someone could theoretically be Israel first because they're an "asset." However, one of those situations are much more prevalent than the other, despite the beliefs of those who say Israel is an enemy.

---

No one is saying Israel is our enemy. They are just a horrible ally who takes hundreds of billions of our tax dollars, uses their military to propagandize our citizens and spies on us. Not to mention trying to get us to waive our First Amendment rights to suit their desires, among a host of other issues an ally doesn't do to another ally.

---

I disagree with all of your points, and I would question how you came to these conclusions. But at least you've presented points that can be discussed and not just accused people of being "assets."

There are 100% people saying Israel is our enemy.

You can look up how much money we send them. It's tens of billions annually and has easily tipped into the hundreds of billions over time. Several reports saying over $300B since WW2.

Here's some articles about the other points I made for your edification and there are many more:

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/05/technology/israel-campaign-gaza-social-media.html

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/feb/15/revealed-disinformation-team-jorge-claim-meddling-elections-tal-hanan

https://www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahu-allies-using-armies-of-bots-to-influence-social-media-discourse-report/

https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/jun/24/israel-fund-us-university-protest-gaza-antisemitism

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/pentagon-raised-threat-israeli-spying-us-highest-level-sources-say-rcna348565

http://guest.house.gov/media/in-the-news/antisemitism-awareness-act-passes-us-house-despite-free-speech-concerns

“Just bomb whoever you want, we have the entire US government raping kids on video” pic.twitter.com/7nC11ORWXn

— Vril Nye (@VrilNyeX) June 8, 2026

BlackGold said:

---

You can look up how much money we send them. It's tens of billions annually and has easily tipped into the hundreds of billions over time. Several reports saying over $300B since WW2.

Here's some articles about the other points I made for your edification and there are many more:

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/05/technology/israel-campaign-gaza-social-media.html

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/feb/15/revealed-disinformation-team-jorge-claim-meddling-elections-tal-hanan

https://www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahu-allies-using-armies-of-bots-to-influence-social-media-discourse-report/

https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/jun/24/israel-fund-us-university-protest-gaza-antisemitism

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/pentagon-raised-threat-israeli-spying-us-highest-level-sources-say-rcna348565

http://guest.house.gov/media/in-the-news/antisemitism-awareness-act-passes-us-house-despite-free-speech-concerns

---

Yes, we have given a lot of aid. Since 1947, which is where that $300 billion comes from, that accounts for less than 0.1% of US spending. Compare that with the benefits of having Israel as an ally in the region (intelligence sharing, R&D, proxy to carry out strategic objectives, etc), and I would say it's money well spent. It's worked a hell of a lot better than the domestic spending on welfare and entitlement programs that make up a vast majority of our spending. Not to mention we gave about 3/5ths that amount to Ukraine in a 4 year period.

People that ***** about foreign aid spending without truly thinking about the alternative world that would exist without the US being the hegemon on the global stage are short sighted. There has been very few areas where government spending has had a better ROI than foreign aid. And that's including with the ridiculous programs that things like DOGE have brought to light. Other countries are not incentivize to just play by our rules out of the goodness of their hearts.

So just throwing out numbers and complaining that it's too much without any analysis of what we've gotten in return is not a very convincing argument. Also, it's $3 - $4 billion annually.

BigRobSA said:

---

Anti-semitic?

No. That descriptor, like "racist", is largely worthless.

Wrong? Yes, he is.

I'd say that the "Military Industrial Complex" is/was a much larger lobby. By orders of magnitude. Then you've got Big Pharma and Big Oil. Both dwarfing Israel. Hell, Israel would even be less than BigEducation.

ETA: I'd wager that the Roman Catholic church has a larger lobby than Israel/ "Da Joos!".

---

The MIC and Israeli lobby have a very high level - like 97% - cross over or support across the congress.

Does anyone have evidence of the IDF explicitly targeting civilians with no regard for military targets (i.e. not examples of admittedly awful collateral damage as a result of striking military targets)?


Asking legitimately, I'm not personally aware of any specific instances, only of vague accusations.

Paul Pierce Ag said:

---

Does anyone have evidence of the IDF explicitly targeting civilians with no regard for military targets (i.e. not examples of admittedly awful collateral damage as a result of striking military targets)?


Asking legitimately, I'm not personally aware of any specific instances, only of vague accusations.

---

No because they don't. They take more action to protect civilians than any military in history.

Gotta give 'em a shot to evidence the accusations. But if they can't… think we might be looking at a good bit of third-worldism

Ok you don't think hundreds of billions of dollars is a lot of money to just give away - I do. Those tax payer dollars should be spent on the tax paying American citizens… what about the rest of the points I made. Did you even look at the articles I shared since you didn't believe the validity of what I was saying? What are your thoughts on them?

BigRobSA said:

---

Anti-semitic?

No. That descriptor, like "racist", is largely worthless.

Wrong? Yes, he is.

I'd say that the "Military Industrial Complex" is/was a much larger lobby. By orders of magnitude. Then you've got Big Pharma and Big Oil. Both dwarfing Israel. Hell, Israel would even be less than BigEducation.

ETA: I'd wager that the Roman Catholic church has a larger lobby than Israel/ "Da Joos!".

---

How do we quantify this?

BlackGold said:

---

Ok you don't think hundreds of billions of dollars is a lot of money to just give away - I do. Those tax payer dollars should be spent on the tax paying American citizens… what about the rest of the points I made. Did you even look at the articles I shared since you didn't believe the validity of what I was saying? What are your thoughts on them?

---

We are not just giving it away.

We've spent between 22-25 Trillion on the war on poverty since 1964.

I can assure you. The ROI on the hundreds of billions to Israel is far greater than the $25 Trillion we've spent on poverty.

If you don't understand this than you don't really understand anything about the benefits of the Israeli economic sector in numerous fields of medicine, engineering, and technology, including military R&D, and the value and necessity of the U.S. projecting economic and military power in the Middle East in a post WW2 world. First because of the Soviets and now because of the Chinese.

That's not fearmongering, that's just the reality of a world economic order that must continue to be advantageous to the economic system we represent and benefit the most from. Every single one of us benefits from it, especially all those people that we've wasted 25 Trillion on fighting the war on poverty in all the wrong ways.

This doesn't mean we haven't had trade policies and economic policies that undermined our own American workers and citizens. We absolutely have. But our economic and diplomatic policies with Israel are not part of our failures in that regard, it's either disingenuous or outright misinformation to suggest that what we've spent on Israel and how we've spent it has taken away opportunities to invest in Americans.

policywonk98 said:

---

BlackGold said:

---

Ok you don't think hundreds of billions of dollars is a lot of money to just give away - I do. Those tax payer dollars should be spent on the tax paying American citizens… what about the rest of the points I made. Did you even look at the articles I shared since you didn't believe the validity of what I was saying? What are your thoughts on them?

---

We are not just giving it away.

We've spent between 22-25 Trillion on the war on poverty since 1964.

I can assure you. The ROI on the hundreds of billions to Israel is far greater than the $25 Trillion we've spent on poverty.

If you don't understand this than you don't really understand anything about the benefits of the Israeli economic sector in numerous fields of medicine, engineering, and technology, including military R&D, and the value and necessity of the U.S. projecting economic and military power in the Middle East in a post WW2 world. First because of the Soviets and now because of the Chinese.

That's not fearmongering, that's just the reality of a world economic order that must continue to be advantageous to the economic system we represent and benefit the most from. Every single one of us benefits from it, especially all those people that we've wasted 25 Trillion on fighting the war on poverty in all the wrong ways.

This doesn't mean we haven't had trade policies and economic policies that undermined our own American workers and citizens. We absolutely have. But our economic and diplomatic policies with Israel are not part of our failures in that regard, it's either disingenuous or outright misinformation to suggest that what we've spent on Israel and how we've spent it has taken away opportunities to invest in Americans.

---

I do understand. The US government is horrible at allocating and spending our tax dollars, including what we give to Israel.

Why do we have to subsidize Israel instead of letting the free-market do its thing? It should naturally flow back to the US if it is worth it.

BlackGold said:

---

policywonk98 said:

---

BlackGold said:

---

Ok you don't think hundreds of billions of dollars is a lot of money to just give away - I do. Those tax payer dollars should be spent on the tax paying American citizens… what about the rest of the points I made. Did you even look at the articles I shared since you didn't believe the validity of what I was saying? What are your thoughts on them?

---

We are not just giving it away.

We've spent between 22-25 Trillion on the war on poverty since 1964.

I can assure you. The ROI on the hundreds of billions to Israel is far greater than the $25 Trillion we've spent on poverty.

If you don't understand this than you don't really understand anything about the benefits of the Israeli economic sector in numerous fields of medicine, engineering, and technology, including military R&D, and the value and necessity of the U.S. projecting economic and military power in the Middle East in a post WW2 world. First because of the Soviets and now because of the Chinese.

That's not fearmongering, that's just the reality of a world economic order that must continue to be advantageous to the economic system we represent and benefit the most from. Every single one of us benefits from it, especially all those people that we've wasted 25 Trillion on fighting the war on poverty in all the wrong ways.

This doesn't mean we haven't had trade policies and economic policies that undermined our own American workers and citizens. We absolutely have. But our economic and diplomatic policies with Israel are not part of our failures in that regard, it's either disingenuous or outright misinformation to suggest that what we've spent on Israel and how we've spent it has taken away opportunities to invest in Americans.

---

I do understand. The US government is horrible at allocating and spending our tax dollars, including what we give to Israel.

Why do we have to subsidize Israel instead of letting the free-market do its thing? It should naturally flow back to the US if it is worth it.

---

That makes no sense at all. You've been told multiple times how it "flows back to the US" but you're choosing to ignore the facts and operate from the point of view that we're just cutting Israel blank checks.

Our foreign aid comes with tons of strings attached. It is the whole reason we give it.