a case for EVs, er Teslas

10,160 Views | 264 Replies | Last: 36 sec ago by Teslag
Logos Stick
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CanyonAg77 said:

I'm not ready for a Tesla yet, but as a certified old fart, I foresee a day coming where I won't be competent to drive any longer. A self driving Tesla might extend my independence for another decade.

Auto Board has a thread about the Cybercab, that doesn't even have a steering wheel or other controls. Mom turned 96 this month, and needs a little help getting into and out of a vehicle. It won't help her now, but ten years ago, I would have bought her one in a heartbeat.



One of my friends is trying to get his 88 year old mom to buy one. She can't drive anymore at night so it's a 2 hour round trip whenever they have get togethers to go get her and take her back, which happens more frequently now because he and his wife are both retired. I think she is paranoid of the whole self driving thing. I told him to see if he could rent one for a week and have her test it and get comfortable with it.
CanyonAg77
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Quote:

These cars are great if your use case fits it.

That's been the disconnect from the start. The greenie weenies say to go 100% electric.

People who can do math know that EV won't do what your diesel pickup can, and vice versa, and that the grid isn't ready for 100% EV.

Some sanity seems to be returning. With Biden gone, the pendulum is swinging back to the market and individuals deciding what is the best option for them.
coolerguy12
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CanyonAg77 said:

Quote:

These cars are great if your use case fits it.

That's been the disconnect from the start. The greenie weenies say to go 100% electric.

People who can do math know that EV won't do what your diesel pickup can, and vice versa, and that the grid isn't ready for 100% EV.

Some sanity seems to be returning. With Biden gone, the pendulum is swinging back to the market and individuals deciding what is the best option for them.


I regret that I have just one star to give to this post. Very well said. Let the market decide and stop making it a political thing. This thread should be on the auto board and not the politics board.
Deputy Travis Junior
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The current Teslas are already great, but if you aren't in a rush to replace your car, give it 12-18 months. You'll get a better battery (more range, shorter charge time) and the next generation FSD chip.

Don't fall for the "EVs are for liberals" bait. The ride is great - the electric motor and instantaneous reaction to gas pedal pressure mean that acceleration is hilariously powerful, yet still silky smooth (no herky jerky gear engagement jolt). The charge-at-home convenience is real. And the tech integration + FSD software is awesome. (Notice none of these had to do with pretentious moral superiority.)

In fifty years, basically everybody will be driving an EV since it's a better technology. so the argument is merely on the timing. I think we're here already, but opinions differ.
BusterAg
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Teslag said:

BusterAg said:

Honest question.

If a Tesla has to undergo a $40,000 battery replacement at 75k and again at 150k miles, but still makes it 250k miles on the road, is it included as a vehicle that has "lasted 250k miles"? That is an important distinction.

As soon as the industry figures out how to do electricity storage cheaper, lighter, and without the spontaneous combustion risk, the ICE will vanish.

Until then, ICE is better.


1. The batteries aren't $40k

2. It would be under warranty at 75k


Not for a roadster. If you have 250k miles on your 8 year old tesla, you have a lot more charging patience than me.
Teslag
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So you're basing it on a supercar that isn't even in production yet?

Rexter
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Deputy Travis Junior said:

The current Teslas are already great, but if you aren't in a rush to replace your car, give it 12-18 months. You'll get a better battery (more range, shorter charge time) and the next generation FSD chip.

Don't fall for the "EVs are for liberals" bait. The ride is great - the electric motor and instantaneous reaction to gas pedal pressure mean that acceleration is hilariously powerful, yet still silky smooth (no herky jerky gear engagement jolt). The charge-at-home convenience is real. And the tech integration + FSD software is awesome. (Notice none of these had to do with pretentious moral superiority.)

In fifty years, basically everybody will be driving an EV since it's a better technology. so the argument is merely on the timing. I think we're here already, but opinions differ.


Say what?
bonfarr
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If cops would consider a FSD equipped car to be a designated driver for someone under the influence I can see a surge in Tesla sales.
techno-ag
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bonfarr said:

If cops would consider a FSD equipped car to be a designated driver for someone under the influence I can see a surge in Tesla sales.
Their onboard cameras monitor whether the driver is alert though. Maybe for Cybercabs that will fly. They will supposedly not have steering wheels anyway so presumably less need for driver attention.
The left cannot kill the Spirit of Charlie Kirk.
JamesE4
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BusterAg said:

Honest question.

If a Tesla has to undergo a $40,000 battery replacement at 75k and again at 150k miles, but still makes it 250k miles on the road, is it included as a vehicle that has "lasted 250k miles"? That is an important distinction.

As soon as the industry figures out how to do electricity storage cheaper, lighter, and without the spontaneous combustion risk, the ICE will vanish.

Until then, ICE is better.

All these stars for an incorrect/irrelevant statement- with an 8 yr/120k miles warranty, in the extremely unlikely case that the battery requires replacement at 75k, the owner cost is zero, not $40k
bonfarr
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techno-ag said:

bonfarr said:

If cops would consider a FSD equipped car to be a designated driver for someone under the influence I can see a surge in Tesla sales.
Their onboard cameras monitor whether the driver is alert though. Maybe for Cybercabs that will fly. They will supposedly not have steering wheels anyway so presumably less need for driver attention.


I have seen quite a few Cyber Cabs cruising around Austin. Are they still in testing like the Waymo cars?

The Cyber Cab styling is a bit ugly so I'm not sure if the appeal outside of people that want to start a ride share business
TexAgs91
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BusterAg said:

Honest question.

If a Tesla has to undergo a $40,000 battery replacement at 75k and again at 150k miles, but still makes it 250k miles on the road, is it included as a vehicle that has "lasted 250k miles"? That is an important distinction.

As soon as the industry figures out how to do electricity storage cheaper, lighter, and without the spontaneous combustion risk, the ICE will vanish.

Until then, ICE is better.

WARNING: False information above



Warranty CoverageTesla provides an 8-year battery and drive unit limited warranty with a guarantee of at least 70% capacity retention (i.e., no more than 30% degradation) during that period. Mileage limits vary by model:

tesla.com
  • Model S, Model X, Cybertruck: 8 years or 150,000 miles.
  • Model Y Long Range / Performance and most Model 3 variants: 8 years or 120,000 miles.
  • Model 3 / Model Y RWD (base): 8 years or 100,000 miles.
techno-ag
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bonfarr said:

techno-ag said:

bonfarr said:

If cops would consider a FSD equipped car to be a designated driver for someone under the influence I can see a surge in Tesla sales.
Their onboard cameras monitor whether the driver is alert though. Maybe for Cybercabs that will fly. They will supposedly not have steering wheels anyway so presumably less need for driver attention.


I have seen quite a few Cyber Cabs cruising around Austin. Are they still investing like the Waymo cars?

The Cyber Cab styling is a bit ugly so I'm not sure if the appeal outside of people that want to start a ride share business

I'm sure the Cybercab starts looking better and better the more one drinks.
The left cannot kill the Spirit of Charlie Kirk.
Teslag
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Do people really give a **** what their taxi looks like?
oh no
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I'm as anti-communist as they come if you've ever seen my posting history. Will never vote for the socialist democrat party. I am against the government market manipulation, against the climate alarmism, against the green industry lobby and all the grant frauds and schemes that go along with it.

...but I did buy an EV truck over two years ago. Drove an F-150 for eight years prior. Drove a Silverado for 9 years prior to that. Drove a jeep grand Cherokee for 10 years before that. Just bought my wife a lexus 550gx and bought my daughter a used mercedes last year, and bought my older son a used silverado a before that.

I test drove a Rivian truck about 2.5 years ago and was really impressed. Bought one. Ask me anything, but let me tell you pros and cons from my experience so far at about 39k miles:


  • my current fixed plan for electricity at home is an "EV plan" that credits me for charging my truck at night between 11p and 5a. so basically, I drive my truck for free while you drive yours for nearly $3 per gallon of gas- but not really because I'm paying about 18.5 cents per kwh and i suppose last year I could have gotten a fixed rate plan at 16 cents but without the credits for charging the truck. but let's just assume your ice pickup gets 20 MPG and regular unleaded averages around $2.80/gal .. and assume the rivian gets around 2.2 miles per kw (it's more in city driving and less on freeways due to regenerative braking, but 2.2 is about average) and your electricity plan is $0.16/kwh. The math works out to about $15 per 100 miles in an ICE pickup and about $7 per 100 miles in the EV. but again, mine is "free" on my plan.
  • with no oil changes or any other fluid flushes, the only maintenance is tire rotations, but with a truck that weighs 7k lbs, I expect to go through tires more often. I'm on my second set now.
  • the acceleration is crazy. my pickup truck goes 0-60 in a shade over 3 seconds. it's insane.
  • the quietness is crazy. at my ranch, i can sneak up on wildlife as quiet as a mouse. Just turn of the AC so the fan is off. driving around the brush or on trails is more silent than walking.
  • air suspension is cool - in offroad mode, the rivian pick up ground clearance is almost 15". my F-150 was about 8.5".
  • having all the various 120v outlets, 12v outlets, and usb-c ports inside and outside the truck is handy, but the air compressor in the bed has been really useful.
  • the storage is amazing for a truck that is smaller than an f-150 or silverado. a front trunk, a powered tonneau cover on the bed, under rear bench seat storage, and the gear tunnel. the gear tunnel alone holds some folding chairs, a bag of golf clubs, two rifle bags, ammo box, work boots, golf shoes, etc.
  • the range is fine. i have the middle sized battery. rivian calls them standard, large, and max.. i have "large". a full charge for me is supposed to give me 330 miles of range- not that much less than a full tank of gas on a pickkup --but of course, in an EV you won't want to "run of fumes" or "all the way down to empty" like you would in an ICE vehicle since there aren't chargers on every corner like there are gas stations. But still, I've driven from houston to dallas and sa many times, to louisiana, to broken bow OK, to S. padre, etc. with no problem at all and no range anxiety. Every Buc-ee's has tesla super chargers, so I may stop and charge for 30 mins vs pumping gas for 5 minutes, but it doesn't bother me.
  • the bed of the truck is small, only 4.5 feet in length with the tailgate up (almost 7' with the tailgate down), but I have had no issues from moving furniture to dirt bikes to lumber & supplies to multiple deer carcasses. i even put a pop up blind in the bed the other night and sat there trying to call some coyotes.
here are the real cons for me:

  • towing. The rivian tows like a dream. no problem with power at all.. but range reduction when towing a heavy trailer is drastically impacted, just like MPG is impacted when towing with your ICE pickup, however, as mentioned earlier - there aren't chargers on every corner (yet) like there are gas stations. I've only towed with trailers in the rivian a couple of times- didn't have to go too far to get to my property, but i would not want to tow cross country in an electric truck. there would be serious anxiety there.
  • rivian doesn't have FSD / auto-pilot (yet). The newer rivians will be able to get it via software updates, but my first gen rivian and won't ever have the ability to get it. mine does have adaptive cruise and controls and changes lanes on highways that are mapped, but will never be fully autonomous like tesla FSD already has.
  • Rivian doesn't have bidirectional charging yet. Ford Lightnings, Tesla cybertrucks, and maybe some others have a solution where you can have the interlock switch on your panel at home and use your EV as backup generator for your home (V2H), or use your EV to charge another EV (V2V).
  • while it is much cheaper to drive and maintain, I expect the resale value to suck down the road. the battery warranty is 8 years / 150k miles. if I drive this thing for say, 6 or 7 years, no one in the used car market wants to buy an EV with little or no warranty left. I've accepted that. I paid cash for this thing. Will drive it for as long as I'm still enjoying it, but know I won't get a ton for trade-in down the road.
Prune Tracy
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I was always a "not for me" guy, but my wife bought a Y to use as a commuter a few weeks ago and it's been awesome. The FSD works great. It took us from CS to Hobby and the only time she touched the wheel was to turn down a lane in the parking garage. Coming home after our trip we hit rush hour traffic and the car did all the work. The lack of "travel fatigue" is a real thing.

We went to New Braunfels this weekend. It poured on us on the way there Friday and the Tesla handled the rain flawlessly. We charged once on Saturday at the outlet mall while we shopped and then drove all over the area Saturday. Stopped at Buc-ee's Sunday morning to charge for the trip home and we went from 14% to 80% in 13 minutes, which was just enough time for my wife to go grab a drink and a snack for the ride home.

The only thing you have to watch is that it likes to camp in the left lane at times, but just flipping the signal to go right and it'll slide over into the right lane. I saw an update come across last night and one of the changes was to minimize lane preference, so camping in the left lane may be fixed now.

I enjoy driving so I don't know that I'll ever have a Tesla as my personal vehicle, but I'll sure use my wife's for monotonous trips to the grocery store, running kids around town, etc.
bonfarr
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Teslag said:

Do people really give a **** what their taxi looks like?


No that's the point. The car is kinda ugly which doesn't matter if the only intended market is for ride sharing use and they aren't marketing it to owners for personal transport
Logos Stick
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Prune Tracy said:

I was always a "not for me" guy, but my wife bought a Y to use as a commuter a few weeks ago and it's been awesome. The FSD works great. It took us from CS to Hobby and the only time she touched the wheel was to turn down a lane in the parking garage. Coming home after our trip we hit rush hour traffic and the car did all the work. The lack of "travel fatigue" is a real thing.

We went to New Braunfels this weekend. It poured on us on the way there Friday and the Tesla handled the rain flawlessly. We charged once on Saturday at the outlet mall while we shopped and then drove all over the area Saturday. Stopped at Buc-ee's Sunday morning to charge for the trip home and we went from 14% to 80% in 13 minutes, which was just enough time for my wife to go grab a drink and a snack for the ride home.

The only thing you have to watch is that it likes to camp in the left lane at times, but just flipping the signal to go right and it'll slide over into the right lane. I saw an update come across last night and one of the changes was to minimize lane preference, so camping in the left lane may be fixed now.

I enjoy driving so I don't know that I'll ever have a Tesla as my personal vehicle, but I'll sure use my wife's for monotonous trips to the grocery store, running kids around town, etc.


Excellent!

I have Walmart+. My groceries get delivered.

If I get a Tesla, I'd like to be able to send it down there on its own, have Walmart load my groceries at the pickup area, and it drive itself back. Perhaps there is a Walmart/Tesla partnership coming that will do that.
Teslag
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Related but we just got the Walmart drone delivery service in our area. It's great.
Buck Turgidson
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You know what has an almost 100% chance of reaching 250 miles, just by changing the oil? Most Toyotas (until the new Tundras & Sequoias crapped the bed). We have a 2015 Sequoia with 180k miles and it looks and drives like most cars with 60k miles. Have another 2019 Sequoia pushing 90k. Both are parked outside and driven in Houston traffic daily. We stay up on the routine maintenance and have no doubt both will go to 250k. There will be nothing we have to replace on them that will ever cost as much as an EV battery. Further, EV resale values are terrible whereas resale values on older Toyotas are shockingly high.
techno-ag
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Buck Turgidson said:

You know what has an almost 100% chance of reaching 250 miles, just by changing the oil? Most Toyotas (until the new Tundras & Sequoias crapped the bed). We have a 2015 Sequoia with 180k miles and it looks and drives like most cars with 60k miles. Have another 2019 Sequoia pushing 90k. Both are parked outside and driven in Houston traffic daily. We stay up on the routine maintenance and have no doubt both will go to 250k. There will be nothing we have to replace on them that will ever cost as much as an EV battery. Further, EV resale values are terrible whereas resale values on older Toyotas are shockingly high.
Yeah that's what the study said. Teslas are about as likely to get there as a GMC pickup or SUV.
The left cannot kill the Spirit of Charlie Kirk.
techno-ag
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BusterAg said:

Honest question.

If a Tesla has to undergo a $40,000 battery replacement at 75k and again at 150k miles, but still makes it 250k miles on the road, is it included as a vehicle that has "lasted 250k miles"? That is an important distinction.

As soon as the industry figures out how to do electricity storage cheaper, lighter, and without the spontaneous combustion risk, the ICE will vanish.

Until then, ICE is better.


Sir, this is a Wendy's. You'll have to rephrase your question to satisfy the zealots on here:

If a Tesla has to undergo a battery replacement under warranty and again out of warranty but still makes it 250k miles on the road, is it included as a vehicle that has "lasted 250k miles"? That is an important distinction.
The left cannot kill the Spirit of Charlie Kirk.
ntxVol
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Logos Stick said:

BTKAG97 said:

Why would an insurance company give a **** if a car can go 250k miles?



The discount is because FSD is safer than a human, not because of vehicle longevity.
But it's not full self driving, that's just how Tesla markets it. It's level 2, a long way from fully autonomous. Hard to believe insurance companies would fall for that.
No Spin Ag
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From what I'm reading, EVs are actually getting better faster that I expected.

I never thought of getting one for the FSD, but when I'm at that age, it'll be a given. Plus, by then, many a decade from now, the tech and cost will be much better than today.

Here's to the future.
There are in fact two things, science and opinion; the former begets knowledge, the later ignorance. Hippocrates
TX AG 88
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My objection to Teslas is not entirely (or even mostly) based on their EV nature. An EV has its place, imo - particularly if you have at least one ICE vehicle in your stable.

I would not buy a Tesla (new or used) because you don't really OWN it, even after you bought it. Things you pay/paid for can be taken away by Tesla changing your "user agreement" after the fact. They have done it.

Some dude bought a used Plaid variant. Paid fully for the Plaid capability. Then Tesla found some fault with the ORIGINAL owner, and de-tuned the car in its next update. Poor secondary buyer is SOL.

And I read somewhere about Tesla going full subscription mode for their FSD updates. That's despite the fact that some cars were sold with it as an add-on option, with no mention of future payments for the privilege.

The whole IP/DRM/right-to-repair debates are of great interest to me. Buying a Tesla is, imo, just asking to be victimized by anti-consumer activities not yet outlawed by legislation or court precedent. I hope those things are forthcoming.

edit - Thanks Deputy, I guess I misremembered the article, or MAYBE I read some nervous owner who speculated that someday his paid-for FSD was going to require him to pay a sub. Anyway, I marked through the info you corrected me on. I hope your paid-for feature remains free for your use into eternity! (I just don't have confidence in pretty much ANY company to not screw consumers in pursuit of NEW REVENUE via subscriptions! My paranoia is not specific to Tesla!)
hsjnlssmith89
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2006 F150 with 261000.
Logos Stick
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ntxVol said:

Logos Stick said:

BTKAG97 said:

Why would an insurance company give a **** if a car can go 250k miles?



The discount is because FSD is safer than a human, not because of vehicle longevity.

But it's not full self driving, that's just how Tesla markets it. It's level 2, a long way from fully autonomous. Hard to believe insurance companies would fall for that.


Level 2 simply means you are sitting behind the wheel, "paying attention". The car is making all the decisions: steering, braking and acceleration, no different than if you were not in the vehicle. The discount is based on the inscos own data and analysis of wrecks per miles driven. They inscos are not falling for anything except real data.
techno-ag
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hsjnlssmith89 said:

2006 F150 with 261000.

Wow. That's three Tesla batteries.
The left cannot kill the Spirit of Charlie Kirk.
ntxVol
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Logos Stick said:

ntxVol said:

Logos Stick said:

BTKAG97 said:

Why would an insurance company give a **** if a car can go 250k miles?



The discount is because FSD is safer than a human, not because of vehicle longevity.

But it's not full self driving, that's just how Tesla markets it. It's level 2, a long way from fully autonomous. Hard to believe insurance companies would fall for that.


Level 2 simply means you are sitting behind the wheel, "paying attention". The car is making all the decisions: steering, braking and acceleration, no different than if you were not in the vehicle. The discount is based on the inscos own data and analysis of wrecks per miles driven. They inscos are not falling for anything except real data.
It's Full Self Driving (Supervised), that's how it's marketed by Tesla. You can mince words all you want but if you get into an accident while the thing is driving itself, you're at fault. Tesla has zero liability.
MAROON
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Quote:

  • the quietness is crazy. at my ranch, i can sneak up on wildlife as quiet as a mouse. Just turn of the AC so the fan is off. driving around the brush or on trails is more silent than walking.


I have a friend who is considering getting an electric hummer and converting it into a top drive for his ranch due to how quiet they are.

Basically this, but an EV Hummer

What do you boys want for breakfast BBQ ?.....OK Chili.
Deputy Travis Junior
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They didn't convert FSD purchasers to subscribers, they just got rid of the purchase option for new sales. Mine still works and I'm getting the latest updates and I haven't paid a dime since I bought it.
GeorgiAg
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MAROON said:

Quote:

  • the quietness is crazy. at my ranch, i can sneak up on wildlife as quiet as a mouse. Just turn of the AC so the fan is off. driving around the brush or on trails is more silent than walking.


I have a friend who is considering getting an electric hummer and converting it into a top drive for his ranch due to how quiet they are.

Basically this, but an EV Hummer



Shhh. ATF will start regulating these too. With a suppressor like they have in Hollywood movies you can drive right behind a deer and shoot it in the butt.

Government needs to regulate these weapons of mass destruction!!!

Logos Stick
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ntxVol said:

Logos Stick said:

ntxVol said:

Logos Stick said:

BTKAG97 said:

Why would an insurance company give a **** if a car can go 250k miles?



The discount is because FSD is safer than a human, not because of vehicle longevity.

But it's not full self driving, that's just how Tesla markets it. It's level 2, a long way from fully autonomous. Hard to believe insurance companies would fall for that.


Level 2 simply means you are sitting behind the wheel, "paying attention". The car is making all the decisions: steering, braking and acceleration, no different than if you were not in the vehicle. The discount is based on the inscos own data and analysis of wrecks per miles driven. They inscos are not falling for anything except real data.

It's Full Self Driving (Supervised), that's how it's marketed by Tesla. You can mince words all you want but if you get into an accident while the thing is driving itself, you're at fault. Tesla has zero liability.



And? The data says it safer, thus the discount.
GAC06
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Im Gipper said:

Thread title here sums it up for me:

I will never buy an electric powered vehicle.


It is nice to see how much the opinion of this board has changed and much more informed people are regarding EV's since that thread started four years ago.
TexasRebel
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When do you think FSD will actually be a product and not just a misnomer?
 
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