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Can cops run your tag without cause???

38,147 Views | 268 Replies | Last: 14 yr ago by 35chililights
Ag_of_08
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Try having one sound-ex off a NCIC hit in the car 2 days after your officers get computers in the cars, and be sitting on the other end of a dispatch radio trying to figure out why the officer is yelling a tx lp# at you like all hell is breaking loose........


Course that's part of our job is to help them get the info they need...

[This message has been edited by Ag_of_08 (edited 10/18/2010 2:36a).]
Ramblin Rogue88
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In the interest of time, I’ll try to keep this brief.

In 1787, when the US Constitution was ratified, it was not legal for cops to run your plates without cause.

In 1861, at the start of the Civil War, it was not legal for cops to run your license plates without cause. If it had been, it likely would have trumped slavery as a reason for the South to secede.

In 1903, when Ford started mass-producing Model A’s, it was not legal for cops to run your license plates without cause.

Sometime since then, which I have no real interest in determining, it became “legal”. And by that, I mean state by state, legislatures passed and governors signed language supporting the activity into law. So for the first 120 years of this country’s existence, it wasn’t legal. Of course, it wasn’t applicable, nor was the technology available. But those are moot points.

I have less of a problem with the registration of vehicles requirement – after all, I use the roads and theoretically some of the registration moneys go to road building and maintenance. Historically, I’ve even paid my registration on time for the most part. So that really isn’t what my b*tching is about.

Ten-maybe even as little as five-years ago, it was a fair game. A cop actually LOOKED at your sticker, and if it was out of date and he was motivated, he pulled you over. Or a cop observed suspicious behavior and called a plate in. HE HAD CAUSE TO DO SO. These days, with ALPR, there’s no fairness. THAT’S the issue.

If any of you naysayers ever speed, you know you’re playing a game. You speed knowing full well that you may get caught and issued a citation. These days, there’s an element of fairness to the game. The cop actually has to observe you doing it. However, with the advent of traffic light cameras and automated tickets, and in Europe, average speed cameras that are the source of automated speeding tickets, that fairness is being whittled away.

And when you tell me that it’s not supposed to be fair, that’s okay, I’ll continue to disagree with you. Because “rights” (not privileges, per se) have always had fairness at their core, and you’re complacently letting your rights erode away.
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sunchaser
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I sure hope you didn't knuckle under and get your car registered.....your next meltdown would be epic.
saysomethin
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I'll have u know they CAN and WILL pull you over for blocking your license plate (YETI cooler is sitting on a game carrier)...They will then search car, give three open container citations, and present the driver with the option to play the breathalyzer or perform a field sobriety test..i chose option B..and passed.
TexasRebel
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why did you let them search your vehicle?
TexasRebel
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From page 2

http://www.realtruth.biz/right_to_drive.htm

dlance, you haven't read the thread, have you?
Ramblin Rogue88
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quote:
I sure hope you didn't knuckle under and get your car registered.....your next meltdown would be epic.


Sorry to disappoint, but I have paid my registration and applicable late fees. Not that I ever "melted-down" about the encounter with the cop.

If my few posts on this subject and their content qualify as a meltdown, then you have much better targets on the Football board, about something much more frivilous.

tbone421998
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I just want to thank the LEOs and their families on this thread for their service.
sunchaser
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Is it legal to charge late fees? If so, how long has it been the case?
cplatt
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quote:
platt, how many cops have been shot or run over during a traffic stop for nothing more than an unregistered vehicle? Also, the drug argument is apples and oranges... unless they've started requiring titles of ownership and registration for drugs. The major difference is that with a vehicle, the state knows who owns it. With a bag of marijuana, the state assumes that owner is the person with possession.


Not sure what your getting at with the "how many cops have been shot" question. If you are talking about that it is not worth it, I would argue that that is the very reason it is absolutely worth stopping a variety of violations, from minor to major things. I am not saying I hope to be shot, nor am I speaking for anyone who has been shot in that situation.

But the fact that someone would shoot an officer (or anyone) over that, regardless of whether that is the only thing illegal (no warrants, other crimes in progress, etc) further shows why stopping a minor thing leads to much bigger things. I go out each and every day knowing full well that the smallest of violations that I stop could make the biggest case I have had yet. On the same token I know that the smallest of violations that I stop may be the last stop I ever make. Anyone who makes regular traffic stops will tell you that you will ALWAYS be reacting, and vehicle occupants will ALWAYS have an upper hand if they want to harm you.

The fact is if someone is willing to take a shot at me, an armed officer, for such a minor infraction, then they will inevitably end up harming/killing someone at some later time, regardless of me making that traffic stop. Once again I am not saying I want to get shot, but if thats what it takes to keep a kid from a lifetime of abuse at the hands of his father, then let him act out on me, someone who is capable of dealing with his aggression, rather than go about his way and continue beating his son. Or his spouse, etc.... I don't do this job because it is the safest things to do (nor do I think its the most dangerous job), I do it because I feel like at this point I can play a part in helping keep others safe.

As far as the drug argument I never said its identical but you continue to place the blame on the owner of the vehicle, when the actual violation, and the blame for it, is solely on the operator of the vehicle. If the arrest title was "Failed to Register Motor Vehicle Before Allowing it to be Driven on a Public Roadway" then you would have an argument. But the responsibility lies in the OPERATION of an unregistered vehicle.

quote:
The operator of the vehicle, AKA driver, is responsible for making sure the vehicle is road worthy.


an unregistered vehicle can be 100% road worthy. You're confusing tax with maintenance.


I am not confusing, as my definition of road worthy means being able to operate it safely and LEGALLY.

I get the fact you don't like that you could be written a ticket for borrowing your buddy's truck who let his tags expire 2 months ago. It however is your responsibility to check those things, although granted most people don't (hell a lot don't even do so on their own vehicles), but thats why its officer discretion. I very much take things like that into account on whether someone receives a ticket or a warning for such things. Unfortunately some people are not very good with discretion, and honestly probably should not be given that power.

eric76
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quote:
So what did you think twenty years ago when they would have registration and inspection checking periods where they would pull over random folks and check their stickers?
A few weeks after I had graduated from high school, I was in Guymon, Oklahoma one Sunday afternoon just driving around. The Oklahoma version of the DPS set up a roadblock on highway 54 on about 1/4 of the way into town and did quick inspections of every car, mainly headlights, taillights, turn signals, tires, and exhaust.

I went through there once and they didn't find anything and let me go. So I started making a loop through there about every 15 minutes the rest of the afternoon. After about the third pass through there in a rather distinctive blue mustang with white racing stripes over the hood, roof, and trunk, they started waving me through every time I came through without checking. With me in my redneck hippie shoulder length hair and driving a sports car and being waved through unchecked, that really drew strange looks from all the families in their family cars.

[This message has been edited by eric76 (edited 10/18/2010 5:23p).]
TexasRebel
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if you want to get into a conversation that is better fit for the philosophy board, there are plenty of negative things that can come from stopping somebody for something so trivial.

while you say you could stop a vehicle for an unregistered plate and discover a kidnapper with an infant in the back seat, I say you could have just made the person that was supposed to be the next good president of the US late to his internship on a day pivotal to his career.

odds are that you do nothing more than delay an ordinary driver 15 minutes and hand them a fine.


also keep in mind that I'm of firm mindset that most traffic "violations" are simply for revenue generation. Especially when they have zero relationship to safety, such as registration. Even with this mindset I can understand stops for rolling a stop sign, or showing signs of distraction/fatigue, even defective equipment... but a traffic stop because a tax was not paid is ridiculous. Especially when you can simply mail in the fine.

Sure, while the "law" says operation, you could end up ticketing the same operator every day because the owner won't register the vehicle. It IS the owner's responsibility to register the vehicle no matter what the "law" says. I'm not saying that doesn't allow you to ticket them... I'm just saying it is part of a messed up system.

I'm glad you show discretion in your work, I'm sure we both wish that your colleagues would, too.


ETA:
One other note to my point is that you are not allowed to register a vehicle you don't own... So if you rely on transportation owned by somebody else, what are you supposed to do while waiting for them to register it?

[This message has been edited by TexasRebel (edited 10/18/2010 5:41p).]
Ag_of_08
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Rebel- your opinion is not the law.

quote:
It IS the owner's responsibility to register the vehicle no matter what the "law" says.


It is the OPERATORS responsibility not to break the law by driving a vehicle not deemed legally roadworthy. Your employer cannot force you to break the law, nor can a private owner.

I'm sorry you FEEL traffic laws are trivial, the law disagrees with you, and until that law is changed....
Texas 1836
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Y'all keep getting away from the OP's main point of whether it was legal/right to run the plates without cause.

Some have said it is legal, rr posts some pretty good rebuttal in a link. I think it continues because people give in and pay the $150 rather than try to make a constitutional case out of it.

Y'all keep saying it helps catch more criminals. Well, I'm afraid that one day a really bad criminal's arrest gets overturned because it started on a "no cause" plate run.

And just because it's legal doesn't mean it's right. Court decisions change things everyday so who knows ...
TexasRebel
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The operator has a right to drive.

if you believe that driving is a privilege, I'm sorry.
Ag_of_08
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Failing to see "operation of a vehicle on publicly funded roads" listed in the constitution, Just as Information displayed publicly is not protected by the fourth amendment. Since it is not a specifically mentioned right, it would therefore fall under the heading of a "state" issue, and the state of Texas has chosen to restrict it. Don't like it, take it up with the state legislature.
Campfire Soul
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M&L, so do your $150 every year or do you try to get a ticket so you can appeal your way up?

And Reb, just because you've found a website that makes an argument that you like doesn't make your argument correct. I'm sure it wouldn't be hard to find a website with some LEOs and lawyers who claim that hunting is murder. Stop citing that ridiculous website as if it were the word of god.
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sunchaser
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quote:
Especially when they have zero relationship to safety, such as registration


I think it's great that you choose to pay extra to register your car.
If the incentive wasn't there would you even have a drivers license?
Would you get it inspected?
Would you purchase insurance?
2468
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quote:
there are plenty of negative things that can come from stopping somebody for something so trivial.




quote:
On May 31, 2003, investigators got the lucky break they desperately needed. At 4:30 a.m., Murphy Police Officer Jeffrey Scott Postell was on routine patrol when he came across a man who appeared homeless. The suspicious man (Eric Ruldolph) was picking trash out of a dumpster behind the Valley Village Shopping Center in Murphy.


How trivial! Any moron can see that cop should not of wasted his time stopping some dude for dumpster diving.

http://www.amw.com/captures/capture.cfm?id=24253
Texas 1836
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Isle, I don't understand your sentence. I'll take a guess and say neither. I just pay the money every year ... on time. Never had a ticket for it.



And a common defense of this practice is "the ends justify the means". If you can catch a crook, it makes it OK. With that logic, you could violate all of our rights on the premise that it will help you stop 'x'.


And some have called me paranoid with "Just what do you think you can find by running your plates???" I really didn't know. So I googled 10-28, which is what some said this was.

According to most sites, a 10-28 is a check on Vehicle Registration. If that is true, how are they seeing the other information that y'all have said is obtained by calling in the plates?

And for those that keep up the mantra, "It's legal, it's legal!" What is legal isn't necessarily right, and those laws are sometimes changed. Just ask Dick Heller.
sunchaser
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http://www.license-plate-search.org/
Texas 1836
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Well, sunchaser, you just made my day.

And I'll feel sooo much better when my daughter turns 16 knowing this info is readily available.
Campfire Soul
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Sorry m&l, I typed that after a few drinks, on my iphone, as I was headed to bed. Typos happen. Let me clarify. You said this...
quote:
I think it continues because people give in and pay the $150 rather than try to make a constitutional case out of it.


So I'm asking if you give in and pay the $150 every year but continue to feel that your rights are being violated? Or do you choose to not pay the $150 so you can make a constitutional issue out of it?

If you genuinely feel that your "constitutional" right is being violated, do you not have some sort of obligation as a free American citizen to challenge the establishment whom is violating that right? I realize that saying or expecting someone to do that is a bit much. But you guys sound awfully offended that what you perceive as a god given right is being taken from you.
gwellis
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Good Lord. Just keep you stickers up to date and there is not even a thread about this.

You probably don't know how many times your plates have been run prior to this and nothing was wrong.

Its called police work and they are just doing their job.

Gil '91
aggiesq
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I also don't know how many illegal searches police have done of my property, but since they apparently didn't find anything I guess that's okay. Thanks for the tip.
Texas 1836
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Isle, I think my registration is $60.

I just picked $150 thinking that was about what the ticket probably cost.

My point was either pay the $150 fine or claim constitutional infringement. Even I'm not that hardheaded.
BigPuma
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quote:
The operator has a right to drive.

if you believe that driving is a privilege, I'm sorry.


driving is a privilege that you have to complete XXXX requirements in order to get a license. you also have to have insurance, etc. *operating on a public roadway.

not everything someones does or can do is a right. you have certain rights, both numerated and enumerated.

quote:
I think it's great that you choose to pay extra to register your car.
If the incentive wasn't there would you even have a drivers license?
Would you get it inspected?
Would you purchase insurance?


im going to guess no.

quote:
Good Lord. Just keep you stickers up to date and there is not even a thread about this.

You probably don't know how many times your plates have been run prior to this and nothing was wrong.

Its called police work and they are just doing their job.



and i could not agree more. especially with how many times your plate has been run, etc.
Furlock Bones
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quote:
driving is a privilege that you have to complete XXXX requirements in order to get a license. you also have to have insurance, etc. *operating on a public roadway.



please read the thread.
TexasRebel
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it appears that none of ya'll has ever been hit by a driver without a license or insurance in a vehicle that was otherwise 100% roadworthy...


Seems to me that the easier, and cheaper thing to do would be to drive a vehicle registered in a different state.

...as long as you never drive through that particular state, of course.

[This message has been edited by TexasRebel (edited 10/19/2010 10:13a).]
Campfire Soul
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quote:
that was otherwise 100% roadworthy


The key word.
sunchaser
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quote:
Seems to me that the easier, and cheaper thing to do would be to drive a vehicle registered in a different state


Want to take a guess how long you can do that in Texas....
TexasRebel
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Isle, yes... My point exactly, how does the driver change the roadworthyness of the vehicle?

sunchaser,

forever as long as you don't own it
sunchaser
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Since it's registered what makes it cheaper?
 
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