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What you are suggesting is that I do my job worrying about costs vs doing it well.

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First, and most important, I defer to your knowledge of vet medicine and best practices. I have zero idea what equipment is absolutely necessary versus good to have versus nice to have versus over the top.

I don't have any idea about that stuff and think its best sorted out by trained professionals and the free market.

Second, I wouldn't begrudge it if you did make a ton of money. No one is holding a gun to someone's head and making them buy your services. Again, I trust the free market to sort that out.

But of course, you factor in costs into the care and owners have to as well.

I have declined or postponed my own medical tests based on costs. I'm certainly going to do that for my animals as well. Even more so for non-pets.

My contention is the overall market continues to drive up the costs based on emotion and that has driven up costs for everyone. Your cost, your customers' cost, everyone.

I think it has reached and passed an irrational level and maybe I am wrong. But as the costs go up, more people will agree and at some point it will be enough to reach a tipping point and either pet ownership will go down or alternatives will be sought out.

So, yes. I love my dog, but in some cases I am just fine with a vet taking their best highly educated guess to try and fix him up for $300 vs running a very expensive test to confirm it before starting an additional treatment on top of that.

If that makes me a bad pet owner, so be it. But he is living a life better than several billion people on this Earth, so I think he is okay with it.

And it doesn't make you a greedy vet or bad person for serving a clientile that thinks differently than me. And doing my job within a budget dictated by my customers doesnt mean I am doing a half ass job. It's just reality.

Hope that doesn't come across as me saying how you should or shouldn't do your job. I'm just trying to say you can never not factor costs, and it's reasonable to expect people will have different opinions of where that line should be drawn.

Now if you will excuse me, I have to go see which of the three dog beds my dog has gone to sleep in, so I can wash the other two. :-)

sam callahan said:

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What you are suggesting is that I do my job worrying about costs vs doing it well.

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First, and most important, I defer to your knowledge of vet medicine and best practices. I have zero idea what equipment is absolutely necessary versus good to have versus nice to have versus over the top.

I don't have any idea about that stuff and think its best sorted out by trained professionals and the free market.

Second, I wouldn't begrudge it if you did make a ton of money. No one is holding a gun to someone's head and making them buy your services. Again, I trust the free market to sort that out.

But of course, you factor in costs into the care and owners have to as well.

I have declined or postponed my own medical tests based on costs. I'm certainly going to do that for my animals as well. Even more so for non-pets.

My contention is the overall market continues to drive up the costs based on emotion and that has driven up costs for everyone. Your cost, your customers' cost, everyone.

I think it has reached and passed an irrational level and maybe I am wrong. But as the costs go up, more people will agree and at some point it will be enough to reach a tipping point and either pet ownership will go down or alternatives will be sought out.

So, yes. I love my dog, but in some cases I am just fine with a vet taking their best highly educated guess to try and fix him up for $300 vs running a very expensive test to confirm it before starting an additional treatment on top of that.

If that makes me a bad pet owner, so be it. But he is living a life better than several billion people on this Earth, so I think he is okay with it.

And it doesn't make you a greedy vet or bad person for serving a clientile that thinks differently than me. And doing my job within a budget dictated by my customers doesnt mean I am doing a half ass job. It's just reality.

Hope that doesn't come across as me saying how you should or shouldn't do your job. I'm just trying to say you can never not factor costs, and it's reasonable to expect people will have different opinions of where that line should be drawn.

Now if you will excuse me, I have to go see which of the three dog beds my dog has gone to sleep in, so I can wash the other two. :-)

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Your dog sleeps in a dog bed and not your bed! The SPCA and dog welfare societies must be notified! And only three dog beds!? I bet they don't even match the house decor!

I always offer affordable/reasonable options when finances are a factor. I don't begrudge anyone with how they choose to spend or not spend their disposable income. I think golf and expensive whiskey is a waste of money.

Now I've started another argument entirely!!

There are a lot of pressures on private practitioners. We have lost revenue due to online pharmacies. We fill all of those prescriptions but require a doctor-client relationship that we define as having examined a pet once yearly. You do that and we will fill any online prescription you need. We may require annual blood work to fill a prescription.

Corporate run Veterinary clinics cost of goods is a lot less than cost of goods of private practitioners. Some online pharmacies are selling product for less than our cost.

The rise of Veterinary clinics in Walmarts. Chewey's opening Veterinary clinics. Low cost vaccines at Tractor Supply.

Low cost spay/neuter clinics that are tax exempt while Veterinarians are fully taxed. We help fund those organizations (through our taxes) that are competing with us. Those organizations are supposed to be helping low income families but they don't check income status. Those services are available to anyone.

There are a lot of pressures on Veterinarians and our pricing reflects that.

Look, it's real easy folks. We have to offer the standard of care, or else we are remiss in doing our jobs and opening ourselves up to online bashing, lawsuits and action from the board.
So we offer treatment plan A, but if you can't/wont pay for it, that's fine. Nothing against you as a pet owner.
So then we work through treatment plans B,C,D, etc. until you are comfortable.
Most of us are fine with that. Hell, I do that with my own pets/livestock.
It's when people demand plan A but only want to pay plan D money that we run into an issue. That dog won't hunt.
Now I'm gonna pour me a glass of cheap whiskey. Here's to you MJS!

Damn, that was rather well said!? Who knew East Texas vets could be so eloquent!

Cheap whiskey just like the cheap beer you always bought!!

DVM97 said:

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Maroonedinaustin said:

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Scotty88 said:

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This whole "country" vets charge less is in some ways laughable. Are these veterinarians less competent therefore can charge less for their services than their peers in the city? Are their overhead costs less? Are they uneducated in a business sense? Do they have "bigger" hearts? Are they subsidized by a "non-profit"?

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Mine doesn't have a fancy clinic. They don't use the expensive machines to confirm/replace diagnosis. So my guess is not carrying eleventy billion in debt allows them to charge reasonable rates.

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Expensive machines are required to accurately diagnose disease. I can't imagine why a veterinarian would NOT want to "confirm" a diagnosis? Why would someone settle for less than the best care a doctor can offer? You'd expect me to "guess" at what's wrong vs be more certain? Would you trust a dentist that doesn't take an X-ray of a tooth? Or a physician to not recommend an MRI or CT scan? Why should a veterinarian not do his or her absolute best to care for your pet? Do you half ass your job? What you are suggesting is that I do my job worrying about costs vs doing it well. I charge what I need to in order to pay my bills, provide 401k and a portion of Health Insurance for my team, pay them a fair wage for their skill set, and still make a profit and ROI for my work and education. I can assure you, I give more free advice via texts or PM's than any attorney or physician. Being a veterinarian isn't what I do, it's who I am. I offer alternatives to those who can't afford advanced diagnostics, but am sure to educate on the limitations of that style of practice. I love being my own boss, making a difference daily in the lives of pets and owners, but it can be very exhausting.

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In this particular situation I didn't need to verify if the ruptured tumor is malignant. I just wanted it removed and stitched up.

My dog is years old, so I'm not treating with anything except pain meds (if and when the time comes). I'm not paying for chemo or radiation just so he can die from the treatment. I don't even want steroids because the side effects suck.

So why do I need all the tests? Secondly, the comparable services provided were 62.5% cheaper.

DVM97 said:

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Damn, that was rather well said!? Who knew East Texas vets could be so eloquent!

Cheap whiskey just like the cheap beer you always bought!!

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Nothing wrong with Keystone light and Jim Beam whiskey. Trying to get by on a poor vet budget. Still waiting on all this supposed vet money. Oh well.

By the way, just got off the phone with a client whose dog had a seizure. He's gonna be fine , came out of it alright. Seems to be doing fine now. Gonna check him out in the morning. Didn't make a dime off that phone call tonight. Man, I need to get better at this greedy vet thing.

Answering the phone at 10:30pm at no charge. You could drink expensive whiskey and beer if you charged for every phone call you take after hours! LOL

I appreciate the after hours call service.

Y'all know that happens to all the rest of us, too, though, right?

I've had plenty of 2:00 emergency calls and Christmas Day calls where a plant was shutdown and needed help to get back running.

Sucks, but we take them because they are customers and we care.

sam callahan said:

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I appreciate the after hours call service.

Y'all know that happens to all the rest of us, too, though, right?

I've had plenty of 2:00 emergency calls and Christmas Day calls where a plant was shutdown and needed help to get back running.

Sucks, but we take them because they are customers and we care.

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Yep.

Worked the day after Thanksgiving most years, even when I was scheduled to be gone on vacation.

Had calls in the middle of the night a number of times.

Had calls while in the hospital while I was recovering from surgery.

Had one this morning. I'm on vacation today. I took it anyway because it wasn't a question my boss would know the answer to.

We are off the week between Christmas and New Year's but I go in a little bit that week because if I don't the employees and contractors will cut corners. They need to know that me or someone with a similar position can and will appear even when aren't supposed to.

Heck, my dad was over maintenance of a high producing plant and got called out on Christmas four or five years in a row.

Lots of industries have this.

And get compensation…..you get paid….

DVM97 said:

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And get compensation…..you get paid….

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I'm salaried.

I'm actually driving down what would be my hourly rate every time I answer a call or go in outside of normal business hours.

Try again.

Nope. Not one dime more.

I think you're conflating your after hours job responsibilities (for which you're paid as a salaried employee) with our resident vets who take the time to offer up their advice to friends and internet acquaintances free of charge with zero incentive to do so other than their own willingness. Big difference between those two things.

That's not to say that we don't have professionals here that also offer up their wisdom.

I appreciate all the vets here who have helped me out many times. I also don't like paying huge vet bills, and I've had quite a few here recently, but everyone up the value chain has to feed their family.

Thanks for the tip. He does hate to cone but it's almost unnecessary. As a Corgi, on his best day he would probably have difficulty licking or scratching his stomach. He's just not built to fold.

Gunny456 said:

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If you're dog hates the cone and tears stuff up with it they make a big inflatable doughnut that goes around their neck that is not as bothersome and a lot more comfortable to the dog and still keeps them from licking the incision.
Our lab was going crazy with the damn cone. One of our vet techs told us about the cone. Totally relaxed our lab.

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The added benefit is the dog already has a life preserver in case of falling in the pool

I removed a used tampon from a Boston Terrier's intestines one time (yes it was disgusting) AND panties from a lab's stomach (NOT his wife's panties). Cats have an obsession with eating rubber bands for some strange reason.

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panties from a lab's stomach (NOT his wife's panties)

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Now that procedure deserved a nice $3,000 upcharge

sam callahan said:

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panties from a lab's stomach (NOT his wife's panties)

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Now that procedure deserved a nice $3,000 upcharge

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And an NDA!

FWIW…. Not many of my colleagues do this but I give out my cell number freely to our clients. Usually the ones who have a big medical case or a complicated surgery or a case that is approaching the weekend. I don't want a clients only recourse to be calling the emergency clinic after hours.

I give my number out but tell them I don't answer it. I will only respond to text messaging and I turn it off at 10 pm. They know I won't see them after hours but I can counsel them.

We aren't the most inexpensive clinic in the area but we have made ourselves valued and appreciated.

For the most part I have not had clients abuse that privilege.