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Vet bills should be taken outdoors and shot

15,085 Views | 173 Replies | Last: 5 days ago by robbio
maroon barchetta
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In reply to Gunny456 • 8:53a, 8/14/25
Gunny456 said:
Well damn. Maybe still try out in the country? Maybe Cameron or Mexia or the like?
Always think country vets are better.


There is a mobile vet out of BCS that hits those areas.

Maybe get in contact with her and get an estimate and a schedule?

https://m.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100075601792770
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agrams
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9:27a, 8/14/25
AG
our dog has anal gland discharge issues. after paying to get them expressed once, i just got a box of nitrile gloves and take care of that **** myself.
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schmellba99
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In reply to Maroonedinaustin • 9:29a, 8/14/25
AG
Maroonedinaustin said:
I appreciate the advice, but I'm actually in Waco. Moved area codes about 8 years ago.

Texas Animal Medical Center (TAMC, not lost on the name here) may be a place to look. A buddy of mine that lives in Waco had nothing but good things to say about it. But we also didn't talk about costs, so there's that.
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schmellba99
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In reply to agrams • 9:29a, 8/14/25
AG
agrams said:
our dog has anal gland discharge issues. after paying to get them expressed once, i just got a box of nitrile gloves and take care of that **** myself.

Literally taking care of the sht
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Cromagnum
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9:52a, 8/14/25
AG
OP didn't accuse, but folks really dont realize how little vets and vet techs make. A DVM racks up close to $200k in student loan debt between undergrad and vet school and when my wife graduated in 2010 day practice vets were making about $50-60k a year (closer to $100k today), so they aren't making bank at all. Vet techs get like $15-20 an hour for a hardass job when they could make similar flipping burgers today.

Emergency vet staff does better on salaries but the hours are atrocious and dealing with the general public is a beating.
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oldord
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10:46a, 8/14/25
AG
As someone mentioned before, the manufactures (Zoetis, BI, Elanco, Merck) are driving about half of this and the corporate consolidators the other half. (Full disclosure, I put together about 30 hospitals a few years back and sold them to PE so I am part of the problem)
TBH COVID broke everything in Vetmed including the vets. Your old guys retired or got paid ungodly multiples on EBITDA and left for good and all you have left are youngsters that we all love to complain about.

The transition for the young vets was almost non existent as the old guys abandoned the industry. Speaking broadly, The youngsters are trying to learn as best they can but when the only mentorship they get is from some manager or regional that is toting a corporate revenue goal.

However, there is a bit of good news. Lending for SBA to young independent vets hit an all time high last month. So community vet med may come back. However, the good ol Aggie vets are few and far between.

I am third generation in the space and still recall going on calls and get a few bushels of vegetables or a gun in trade for work. Those days are over.

Also, the days of high quality vet care and low cost are gone as well. The disparity is stark as you can have high quality and high cost or low cost and low quality.

The only thing that will change the industry is for the legal status of animals to change from chattel property which will bring on increased liability and insurance for practicioners which will cascade into more regulation and eventually single payer and a ramp into human light.
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docb
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11:01a, 8/14/25
AG
I've heard private equity is now going after HVAC companies so get ready for those bills next.
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schmellba99
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In reply to Cromagnum • 11:07a, 8/14/25
AG
Cromagnum said:
OP didn't accuse, but folks really dont realize how little vets and vet techs make. A DVM racks up close to $200k in student loan debt between undergrad and vet school and when my wife graduated in 2010 day practice vets were making about $50-60k a year (closer to $100k today), so they aren't making bank at all. Vet techs get like $15-20 an hour for a hardass job when they could make similar flipping burgers today.

Emergency vet staff does better on salaries but the hours are atrocious and dealing with the general public is a beating.

It's hard for me to comprehend this when every single vet I know is doing the opposite of this.

I get that there is student debt and all that, but unless the vet is just giving away sevices for free or is really, really bad ad business, seems they do better than average.

I don't begrudge them one bit for that - they charge what people are willing to pay to keep Fluffy and soul stealing cats alive. That's capitalism. But the "they are just poor vets".....yeah, no.

Can't speak for vet techs at all, but they aren't vets and I don't expect them to make vet money either.
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sam callahan
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11:07a, 8/14/25
Definitely plenty of blame on consumers, too.

Folks turn their nose up at the old cinder block county vet office I described earlier. They love the fluffy pillows and coffee bar and kids play area and polished floors and chandeliers and on and on. I'm sure vets feel like they have to compete and end up spending many X times what they would need for a simple clean facility.

And we are pet crazy on the whole. It's not unusual to hear folks spending 5 or 10 grand on their 12 year old dog. I get it. It's hard to put an animal down. Especially for the younger generations and people who didnt grow up on or around farms.

Boarding facilities are going just as crazy. The new boarding place in town is nicer than any spa in town. Wasn't long ago you could board a dog for $25/night. Some of their rates are over $100/night and that's without add ons - story time, ice cream social, webcam, extra pics texted, picture day and on and on - and that's consumer driven.

And I am all for folks spending money how they wish…but there is no small number of these folks that are debt to their eyeballs and will be looking for retirement bailouts and such.

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Maroonedinaustin
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11:13a, 8/14/25
AG
Just dropped Max (Doberman) off at the country vet to have the procedure done. Cost is $150 for the service, $50 for anesthesia, plus cost of antibiotics and pain meds. I should get out for just around $300. Not $1000. (Was $1200 with Histopathology).

Apples to apples comparison.

City vet:
anesthesia - $115 plus $72.49 for IV induction: keta/AP, and $88.11 for pain (torb).

Tumor removal-$250



Country vet:
anesthesia-$50

Country vet tumor removal-$150

Meds-~$75

If I wanted a histiopath it is $63 cheaper than the city vet.

No charges for Surgical pack opening/ reautoclaving, surgical assistant, or cardiac monitoring
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Disco Stu
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In reply to Cromagnum • 11:25a, 8/14/25
AG
Cromagnum said:
OP didn't accuse, but folks really dont realize how little vets and vet techs make. A DVM racks up close to $200k in student loan debt between undergrad and vet school and when my wife graduated in 2010 day practice vets were making about $50-60k a year (closer to $100k today), so they aren't making bank at all. Vet techs get like $15-20 an hour for a hardass job when they could make similar flipping burgers today.

Emergency vet staff does better on salaries but the hours are atrocious and dealing with the general public is a beating.

This. My wife graduated in 2010 as well. This is exactly our experience.
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Gunny456
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In reply to maroon barchetta • 11:41a, 8/14/25
AG
Maybe that is great idea for OP.
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Gunny456
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11:48a, 8/14/25
AG
I trust my vet more than my doctors. I think he knows more than them too.
A vet never has the ability to have the animal tell them where it hurts or if they feel bad like a regular MD.
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Cromagnum
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In reply to schmellba99 • 11:51a, 8/14/25
AG
schmellba99 said:
Cromagnum said:
OP didn't accuse, but folks really dont realize how little vets and vet techs make. A DVM racks up close to $200k in student loan debt between undergrad and vet school and when my wife graduated in 2010 day practice vets were making about $50-60k a year (closer to $100k today), so they aren't making bank at all. Vet techs get like $15-20 an hour for a hardass job when they could make similar flipping burgers today.

Emergency vet staff does better on salaries but the hours are atrocious and dealing with the general public is a beating.

It's hard for me to comprehend this when every single vet I know is doing the opposite of this.

I get that there is student debt and all that, but unless the vet is just giving away sevices for free or is really, really bad ad business, seems they do better than average.

I don't begrudge them one bit for that - they charge what people are willing to pay to keep Fluffy and soul stealing cats alive. That's capitalism. But the "they are just poor vets".....yeah, no.

Can't speak for vet techs at all, but they aren't vets and I don't expect them to make vet money either.


The ONLY vets making me any kind of real money are emergency and specialty hospital vets, and they have to put in their dues upfront and working with the conditions they do.

ETA: small animal vets. I can't speak for large animal.
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Disco Stu
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In reply to Gunny456 • 12:01p, 8/14/25
AG
Most vets also treat more than one species without the benefit of referring to a wide range of specialists.
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Gunny456
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In reply to Disco Stu • 12:21p, 8/14/25
AgGrad99
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12:32p, 8/14/25
AG
Prices have skyrocketed the past 5 years since Covid/Biden's inflation...but the skyrocketing costs at the Vet was happening before that (at least in the suburbs). If something costs $250 from a country vet, it's hard to blame inflation for the price being $600 in the burbs.

I blame the local population who buy $3000 dogs and want pookie to have the best of everything.


My dog has a fatty lump on her chest and it's ginormous. I'd love to get it removed for her, but I'm not going to pay 5x what we paid for her to have it removed. Love the dog, but she's going to have to live with it I guess.

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IslandAg76
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12:32p, 8/14/25
AG
For a new veterinarian graduating in the US, the average student loan debt is around
$150,000, according to the American Veterinary Medical Association (AVMA). However, the average debt among only those graduates with loans is $179,505. It's important to remember that this is an average, and individual debt loads can vary significantly, with some veterinarians reporting debt over $400,000.
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gravitartx
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12:48p, 8/14/25
AG
Can't speak from personal experience, but my parents spend ungodly amounts of money on their pitbull they got from the shelter. He has so many medical problems (skin allergies, benign fatty skin lumps, etc.) They recently took him in for a hematoma on his ear presumably from scratching or slamming it on a wall while shaking his head. Supposedly they spent $1500 to get it drained, his nails clipped, and teeth cleaned and he has several of these type of issues come up a year. He's aa good dog, but if he were mine I think I would just let everything ride and try to find alternative medication instead of spending $300 on apoquel every couple months.

I've been gun shy on getting a dog for about 5 years now and the (now) high medical costs of keeping the thing alive and somewhat comfortable if he has bad genetics makes me very hesitant to go through with it. One thing's for sure though, no shelter dogs. The ones we had growing up always had some pretty bad health problems as they got older
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aggie4christ22
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1:08p, 8/14/25
I am a vet - graduated in 2012. I am in the process of opening a clinic in our town because of the reasons listed above - PE eating up everything, corporate medicine costing an arm and a leg, among other reasons. Good medicine can be practiced without it costing an insane amount - generally speaking. Drug costs have gone up, staffing costs have gone up, etc. I am doing what I can during my build-out to keep costs low, re-use as much as possible in the existing space, buy used equipment, etc. to keep my costs down once I open. Decor is coming from Goodwill/thrift shopping.

Often times these 'country' vets that are not charging cardiac monitoring is because they are not, in fact, doing any cardiac monitoring, which is obviously not ideal. That being said, I practice good but practical medicine. One of my favorite phrases from Dr. Willard in vet school was "Do you want this dog or a dog?". As a frugal person myself, I can't see spending as much as some of my clients do at some of the clinics I work at (been doing relief for 8 years now, associate prior to that). I feel if I wouldn't pay for it, neither will my clients. Some costs are out of our hands - histopathology, lab costs, vaccine costs, etc. Newer grads are often slower at surgery too, so it costs more for them to do it - increased amounts of gas used, time spent monitoring, etc. But some costs are. Some surgeries are a lot because that surgeon doesn't want to do it so hopes you'll go elsewhere, and some are high because they require specialized knowledge/skill/equipment (think orthopedics).

There are a lot of factors that go into why things cost what they do, but I do feel it has gotten a bit out of hand since Covid. It isn't strictly inflation - it's private equity causing most of it. Now there's shareholders dipping their hands in the pots too.
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robbio
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2:32p, 8/14/25
Veterinary Medicine has changed a lot over the years. For instance we never used to offer pain medications for routine spays and neuters. In fact we would say not to use pain medications because that helps restrict activity. In todays world we offer pre-op lab work, IV catheters, coagulation profiles, Elizabethan collars and post-op sedation for routine spays and neuters.

Expectations have changed and the nature of pets have changed also. Todays pets are almost like little humans to some. We have to offer the best medicine and let the owner decline what they don't want. Plus we live in a litigious society and we have to protect ourselves.

In addition, new graduates graduate with massive debt loads.

Plus we have to manage the expectations of our clientele. I may think a pet, for instance, will get better on its own but I rarely recommend that. My level of paranoia has to at least match my clients level of paranoia or else I get bad google reviews. I have been called a "god" and a "monster" on google reviews... neither are true. We live in a complicated world.

I will say a lot of free Veterinary advice has been given on this forum.
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schmellba99
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In reply to Cromagnum • 2:53p, 8/14/25
AG
Cromagnum said:
schmellba99 said:
Cromagnum said:
OP didn't accuse, but folks really dont realize how little vets and vet techs make. A DVM racks up close to $200k in student loan debt between undergrad and vet school and when my wife graduated in 2010 day practice vets were making about $50-60k a year (closer to $100k today), so they aren't making bank at all. Vet techs get like $15-20 an hour for a hardass job when they could make similar flipping burgers today.

Emergency vet staff does better on salaries but the hours are atrocious and dealing with the general public is a beating.

It's hard for me to comprehend this when every single vet I know is doing the opposite of this.

I get that there is student debt and all that, but unless the vet is just giving away sevices for free or is really, really bad ad business, seems they do better than average.

I don't begrudge them one bit for that - they charge what people are willing to pay to keep Fluffy and soul stealing cats alive. That's capitalism. But the "they are just poor vets".....yeah, no.

Can't speak for vet techs at all, but they aren't vets and I don't expect them to make vet money either.


The ONLY vets making me any kind of real money are emergency and specialty hospital vets, and they have to put in their dues upfront and working with the conditions they do.

ETA: small animal vets. I can't speak for large animal.

Again, based on my anecdotal evidence - this is just not true.
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AgTrip
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3:07p, 8/14/25
My Jack Russell got hit in the head with a log when we were splitting wood. Took him in and they said since it was a head injury, he may need to stay the night in an oxygen cage. That would cost $1,400.00. I said I got air at home, I'll put a fan on his bed. He's as fine as a Jack Russell can be I guess!
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DVM97
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3:34p, 8/14/25
AG
I've been doing this for over 25 years. The "good 'ol days" and country vet mentality is fading. As stated, what clients want and our ability to practice quality medicine has changed significantly in the last 20 years. In many cases, my patients aren't just a dog or a cat, but a family member. We have families with no children, empty-nesters, and others who's only comfort during the day is their pet.
I am running diagnostic tests, and using monitoring equipment that I never thought I would ever use in Veterinary medicine. These monitors and diagnostics are now the expected standard of care, and with that comes increased expense for the staff to have the knowledge to use the equipment And understand what they are monitoring.
When I graduated from vet school, they weren't even teaching dentistry. In today's Veterinary world dental x-rays are the standard of care. If you're not taking x-rays when performing a dental procedure, some would argue that you are practicing substandard care.
As stated, private equity has also been a game changer in our industry. Many specialty and emergency hospitals are charging fees that I considered to be exorbitant, but they answered to shareholders. We really need to see some of these younger doctors step up and have an interest in practice ownership . That is the only way we will keep this industry sane and in the hands of good people. Corporate medicine has one goal and that is to make money.
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chickencoupe16
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4:14p, 8/14/25
AG
Few thoughts that many have already expressed but deserve saying again:

1) Prices have gone up. Everywhere and for everything. My personal vet's have skyrocketed and she's easily in the bottom quarter of our town. Thanks, inflation.

2) If you're paying drastically less, you're probably getting an inferior product. Not necessarily, but probably. And inferior may be just what you're looking for.

3) Vets do ok financially. Most are certainly doing better than my parents did. The problem is that they make less than many others with professional degrees (like doctors) for not a lot less effort (if at all). Vets want to be paid more and if clients will pay it, that's capitalism.
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Maroonedinaustin
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In reply to Cromagnum • 4:14p, 8/14/25
AG
Cromagnum said:
OP didn't accuse, but folks really dont realize how little vets and vet techs make. A DVM racks up close to $200k in student loan debt between undergrad and vet school and when my wife graduated in 2010 day practice vets were making about $50-60k a year (closer to $100k today), so they aren't making bank at all. Vet techs get like $15-20 an hour for a hardass job when they could make similar flipping burgers today.

Emergency vet staff does better on salaries but the hours are atrocious and dealing with the general public is a beating.


Is this the case for DVMs that owns their practice?
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AgGrad99
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4:17p, 8/14/25
AG
As the client, I'm fine if the Vet has expensive procedures and high costs for some options. I understand some things cost more than others.

That said, I'd love to be given the option; and I would be happy to sign an opt-out, indemnifying the practice.

I love my dog. But if you give me the option to cut out a fatty tumor for $500 the old school way, and $1500 the new-school way...I'll choose the $500 option.

If you only give me the $1500 option...I'm just letting my dog drag that thing around

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chickencoupe16
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In reply to Maroonedinaustin • 4:24p, 8/14/25
AG
Maroonedinaustin said:
chickencoupe16 said:
The histopathology is totally optional. Definitely recommended but if you're looking to shave costs, that's a good start. You just can't be sad if you later learn the mass was cancerous.


Even if cancerous, I don't think there's much that can be done for a 9 yr old Dobie. What's the advantage of knowing it's cancer? (Serious question, not being a smart ass.)


Depends on what type, stage, and grade. Only way to know that is more diagnostics like histopath. Also depends on the client's goals and financial resources. The answer to your question could be a lot or a little and both of those are in the eye of the beholder. Some clients would tell you an extra month is worth $5000 but others wouldn't pay $500 for another year.

It's not wrong to forgo histopath if the client is properly informed and makes that decision, which is mostly why I threw in the warning.
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Maroonedinaustin
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In reply to AgGrad99 • 4:25p, 8/14/25
AG
AgGrad99 said:
As the client, I'm fine if the Vet has expensive procedures and high costs for some options. I understand some things cost more than others.

That said, I'd love to be given the option; and I would be happy to sign an opt-out, indemnifying the practice.

I love my dog. But if you give me the option to cut out a fatty tumor for $500 the old school way, and $1500 the new-school way...I'll choose the $500 option.

If you only give me the $1500 option...I'm just letting my dog drag that thing around



This! And don't look at me like I'm the devil when I choose the cheaper option.
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Cromagnum
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In reply to Maroonedinaustin • 4:25p, 8/14/25
AG
Maroonedinaustin said:
Cromagnum said:
OP didn't accuse, but folks really dont realize how little vets and vet techs make. A DVM racks up close to $200k in student loan debt between undergrad and vet school and when my wife graduated in 2010 day practice vets were making about $50-60k a year (closer to $100k today), so they aren't making bank at all. Vet techs get like $15-20 an hour for a hardass job when they could make similar flipping burgers today.

Emergency vet staff does better on salaries but the hours are atrocious and dealing with the general public is a beating.


Is this the case for DVMs that owns their practice?


I know a handful that do, and independent vets working emergency earn far more, plus dont have to deal with hassle of owning a business.
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chickencoupe16
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In reply to Maroonedinaustin • 4:28p, 8/14/25
AG
Maroonedinaustin said:
Cromagnum said:
OP didn't accuse, but folks really dont realize how little vets and vet techs make. A DVM racks up close to $200k in student loan debt between undergrad and vet school and when my wife graduated in 2010 day practice vets were making about $50-60k a year (closer to $100k today), so they aren't making bank at all. Vet techs get like $15-20 an hour for a hardass job when they could make similar flipping burgers today.

Emergency vet staff does better on salaries but the hours are atrocious and dealing with the general public is a beating.


Is this the case for DVMs that owns their practice?


Owners typically do better than associates but a practice in Frisco is tough to compare to one in Navasota. And some owners are better businessmen than others.
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FishrCoAg
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In reply to Ag97 • 8:59p, 8/14/25
AG
Ag97 said:
Economics is going to kick in one of these days for more than just vet services. Wages just dont seem to be keeping up with inflation. When our 3 dogs pass away, if things keep on as they are, we'll probably just have one going forward. I joke with my vet that I want my name on one of the decorative rocks around his new pool as I've spent enough money with him over the years that part of that pool should be mine.

It's not just vet services as was mentioned. The reality is, unless inflation doesn't level off, we're all going to have to make choices on where we spend our money. Entertainment, travel and restaurants will be hit first but at some point we'll also be forced to delay or not do a recommended procedure at all for our animals with our local vet. Just economics.


Do you know how many times a week we hear that same joke about how a client paid for the clinic truck or a room or whatever?
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DVM97
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In reply to DVM97 • 8:45a, 8/15/25
AG
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Maroonedinaustin
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10:16a, 8/15/25
AG
Squints McGee is home and resting comfortably!
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DVM97
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11:13a, 8/15/25
AG
Saw this in Katy today. Corporate veterinary medicine makes it hard for Mom and Pop clinics to compete for staff and doctors. We've had no choice but to increase prices to compensate staff the way Corp does.
Most corporate clinics have phenomenal (affordable) health insurance, 401k, maternity and paternity leave, paid holidays, ample vacation and PTO. Some are offering 10-50k sign on bonuses. It's tough to compete with that when you are a small business. We offer excellent health insurance (most of my staff can't afford it), 401k, vacation/PTO and some form of profit sharing. 70% of my team makes between $20-27 an hour. Our kennel help makes $14/hour.
And I still struggle to find good help, and forget trying to find a doctor, much less a good one. All of this headache to make 1/2 of what my dentist friends make and 1/3 of what a physician makes. Veterinarians are still grossly underpaid compared to other health professionals.
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