I love that so much!

How did Juan Gonzales win the MVP in 1996?

https://www.baseball-reference.com/awards/awards_1996.shtml#all_AL_MVP_voting

He was good at a lot of things but didnt lead the league in any significant catagory....and the guys who finished just behind him in the voting were equally good across the board and better in serveral catagories (ARod, Belle, Junior).

Did Junior and A-Rod being on the same team just split the vote.....no one in the media liked Belle....and Gonzalez was the lucky next guy in line?

AgRyan04 said:

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How did Juan Gonzales win the MVP in 1996?

https://www.baseball-reference.com/awards/awards_1996.shtml#all_AL_MVP_voting

He was good at a lot of things but didnt lead the league in any significant catagory....and the guys who finished just behind him in the voting were equally good across the board and better in serveral catagories (ARod, Belle, Junior).

Did Junior and A-Rod being on the same team just split the vote.....no one in the media liked Belle....and Gonzalez was the lucky next guy in line?

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Here's an ancient piece from ESPN.com on the subject - the main point seems to be that Gonzo's Rangers won the division and finished 4.5 games ahead of the Mariners. And it sounds like even then, Griffey's sheer likeability was giving him a lot more votes, sort of like all-American boy Joe Dimaggio vs. grumpy young man Ted Williams did 50 years earlier.

Frankly, this was one of the worst MVP votes in history. Both Seattle writers voted Ken Griffey Jr. first and another writer from Oakland somehow placed Rodriguez seventh. But this vote probably came down to the Rangers making the playoffs and the Mariners falling short. The faulty logic that was applied to Sosa was applied to Gonzalez in this case as well: by arguing that the Rangers (or Cubs) wouldn't have made the playoffs without Gonzalez (or Sosa) is, as Bill James once wrote, a "specious argument, since it attributes to the player himself the value which is inherent in the position he occupies." In other words, it wasn't Gonzalez who made the Rangers 4.5 games better than the Mariners, it was the Rangers who were 4.5 games better than the Mariners.

WAR also wasn't a thing people knew or cared about back then. If you only look at the HR and RBI numbers, then it's logical to Gonzalez as the MVP.

Today he'd have no chance of winning the award.

If you only look at HR and RBIs then Belle should have won it

AgRyan04 said:

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If you only look at HR and RBIs then Belle should have won it

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Sure but he got DQd for being a jerk, which was consistent with the evaluation metrics at the time

Red Murff - born in Tyler, went to HS in Rosebud, & buried in Rockdale. Made his big league debut at age of THIRTY FIVE and played two seasons with the Braves, including their World Series win in '57

The baseball field at UMHB is named for him.

jja79 said:

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The baseball field at UMHB is named for him.

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That's awesome....that kinda stuff should be on BaseballReference too!

AgRyan04 said:

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jja79 said:

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The baseball field at UMHB is named for him.

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That's awesome....that kinda stuff should be on BaseballReference too!

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One of my sons pitched at UMHB so I've spent some time at Red Murff Field. Murff was also the scout that discovered Nolan Ryan.

Oh, I didn't put that together!

I thought I recognized his name but I couldn't place it....it was definitely from signing Nolan

Just saw that Carl Erskine, of Dodgers fame, passed away last week at the age of 97.

He was born in Anderson, IN
He played at Anderson High School
He played at Anderson University
He died in Anderson, IN

AgRyan04 said:

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AgRyan04 said:

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Mr. Bobby Shantz

I stumbled upon him as he was on the first Colts team back in 1962. His career was pretty amazing!

Broke into the big leagues in 1949
Played for the Philadelphia A's and won the AL MVP in 1952
Won a World Series with the Yankees in 1958
Played with his brother in both Philadelphia and New York
Was traded by Cardinals to the Cubs for Lou Brock

The guy played for 16 years and got to play with:

Nellie Fox
Mickey Mantle
Yogi Berra
Whitey Ford
Enos Slaughter
Bill Mazeroski
Dick Groat
Roberto Clemente
Vern Law
Stan Musial
Curt Flood
Red Schoendienst
Bob Gibson
Curt Simmons
Ernie Banks
Ron Santo
Billy Williams
Dick Allen
Jim Bunning

He will turn 100 years old in September. I would love to sit down and hear some of his stories!

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Got this back in the mail today....wrote him a letter and sent him a card

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I've heard of Shantz but never knew much about him. This inspired me to do a little research on my own. In his 16 year career he had 548 at bats and one home run. He hit it in his second season against Allie Reynolds.

1963 - Eddie Mathews....had a WAR of 8.0 and didn't make the All-star team or have a single MVP vote (with 24 players getting votes).

The other two 8+ WAR seasons in his career he was both an All-Star and finished 2nd in MVP voting.

Thats pretty cool

Maddux pitched in Houston three times that year.....vs Clemens, vs Pettitte (I attended), & vs Roy Oswalt

AgRyan04 said:

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Thats pretty cool

Maddux pitched in Houston three times that year.....vs Clemens, vs Pettitte (I attended), & vs Roy Oswalt

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I saw him randomly pitch for the Padres vs the Tigers on a spur of the moment decision by my brother and I during a family vacation in So Cal. Maddux pitched 7 innings of 1 run ball and left the lead, then the first reliever blew the save but gone the win.

On Aug 30, 2002 the Indians activated Milton Bradley from the DL and to make room on the roster, sent Coco Crisp to AAA.

Neither Dr. Seuss or Toucan Sam had commments on the transaction.


https://www.upi.com/Sports_News/2002/08/30/Indians-activate-OF-Bradley/67271030736083/

AgRyan04 said:

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On Aug 30, 2002 the Indians activated Milton Bradley from the DL and to make room on the roster, sent Coco Crisp to AAA.

Neither Dr. Seuss or Toucan Sam had commments on the transaction.


https://www.upi.com/Sports_News/2002/08/30/Indians-activate-OF-Bradley/67271030736083/

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I guess you could say Milton Bradley had a Monopoly on the outfield for Cleveland. Not really my best but it will work.

Connie Marrero!

• 5 foot 5
• Came over from Cuba and made his major league debut at age 39 in 1950
• Made an all star team at age 40 and received an MVP vote at age 41
• Returned to Cuba after his playing career and died in La Habana at the ripe old age of 102

I wonder if we'll ever see another 300 game winner, much less two in one game...

The current active wins leader is Justin Verlander with 262, but he's 42 and has only won more than 10 games in a season once in the last 4 years. So far this year he's 0-2 in 6 starts. He should have at least one win, but the Giant's closer blew the save against the Angels a couple of weeks ago.

Smeghead4761 said:

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I wonder if we'll ever see another 300 game winner, much less two in one game...

The current active wins leader is Justin Verlander with 262, but he's 42 and has only won more than 10 games in a season once in the last 4 years. So far this year he's 0-2 in 6 starts. He should have at least one win, but the Giant's closer blew the save against the Angels a couple of weeks ago.

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I was just posting on the Astros thread that COVID ruined his chances at 300. The season started 4 months late and he got hurt in his first start and missed all of 2021. While he might have still gotten hurt in August of 2020, he was still in prime Verlander mode immediately before that. If he doesn't get hurt, and COVID doesn't happen, he could easily be at 290 right now.

Saw they blew another win for him last night.

300 wins seems preposterous at this point unless there's a fundamental shift in how the game is played. It's 20 years of 15 wins.

Is there any other modern era starting pitcher in the HOF who never won a Cy Young Award, never had a sub-3.00 ERA season, and didn't reach 300 wins or 3,000 strikeouts?

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/morrija02.shtml

Jim Kaat and Mussina are the only two Im seeing that are close.

The Giants have set a new Wrigley Field record for most runs scored in an extra inning, scoring 9 runs in the 11th inning of tonight's game.

The previous record was 7, set in 1921, by the New York Giants.

The Original Houston 1836 said:

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I was just posting on the Astros thread that COVID ruined his chances at 300. The season started 4 months late and he got hurt in his first start and missed all of 2021. While he might have still gotten hurt in August of 2020, he was still in prime Verlander mode immediately before that. If he doesn't get hurt, and COVID doesn't happen, he could easily be at 290 right now.

Saw they blew another win for him last night.

300 wins seems preposterous at this point unless there's a fundamental shift in how the game is played. It's 20 years of 15 wins.

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Verlander has pitched well in his last 4 starts, but the bullpen blew leads in 3 of the 4, and the Giants got shut out in the fourth start. This is the first time in his career that Verlander has started the season winless in his first 8 starts.

Getting to 300 was certainly easier back in the days of 4 man rotations. With a 5 man rotation in a 162 game season, the max number of starts is 32 or 33, assuming no injuries. A 4 man rotation gets you 40 or 41 starts. A pitcher would only have to win half his starts to get to 20 wins in a season.

Smeghead4761 said:

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The Giants have set a new Wrigley Field record for most runs scored in an extra inning, scoring 9 runs in the 11th inning of tonight's game.

The previous record was 7, set in 1921, by the New York Giants.

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Boo.

Pressley was maybe the worst.

Seen today on FB: "A Cubs fan has been elected Pope by a bunch of Cardinals."

Put this on Astros thread, but probably belongs here more.

Judge hit 2 more homers today. He has 14 dingers, 37 RBI, is hitting .396, and has a 1.258 OBP - all of those lead the majors.
He's also on pace to score 154 runs, get 245 hits, 42 doubles, 8 triples, 58 HR, 154 RBI and 154 BB.

Surely he won't keep it up, but realize after almost 1/4th of the season, he's on pace for arguably the greatest offensive season of all time. It would easily be the greatest season post-1950.

Throwing out WAR and focusing on the raw numbers, here are some of the best ever when it comes to the triple crown categories.

Babe Ruth 1921: 59 HR, 168 RBI, .378
Babe Ruth 1927: 60 HR, 165 RBI, .356
Hack Wilson 1930: 56 HR, 191 RBI, .356
Lou Gehrig 1934: 49 HR, 166 RBI, .363
Jimmie Foxx 1932: 58 HR, 169 RBI, .364

Post 1945 and not steroid implicated
Ted Williams 1949: 43 HR, 159 RBI, .343
Stan Musial 1948: 39 HR, 131 RBI, .376
Mickey Mantle 1956: 52 HR, 130 RBI, .353

As far as I can tell, Babe Ruth is the only guy to hit above .370 and hit 50 HR in the same season in any era. he did in 1920 and 1921.

Wilbur Wood, of whom I had never heard of before just now, had a WAR of 50.

Was in the bullpen until his 10th season and then they move him into the rotation and he has back-to-back-to-back top 4 CY finishes. Looks like they should have started him earlier in his career?

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/w/woodwi01.shtml

I've been going to MLB games for 61 years so I know him well. From 1971-1975 he started 223 games with 99 complete games. I don't recall what year it was but he started both games of a doubleheader once. Knuckleballer.

Thats wild!