He initially came to mind, but I was going to defer to others here as far as what's preferred.

6.5 INF

• Walker
• Altuve
• Pena
• Correa
• Paredes
• Urias
• Du--

4.5 OF

• --bon
• Smith
• Sanchez
• Myers
• Alavrez

2 C

• Diaz
• new FA catcher

That leaves Cole out. He has options and can be the first man up when there will be an injury because there always is. I don't think improving on the 5th outfielder or 14th roster guy is the real issue. Trammell and Melton don't overly concern me. I wish we had traded Melton a year or so ago. Urias and Dubon are a bit of an overlap. If someone has to go, one of them makes some sense. Dubon is going to be making 6-7 M most likely. Urais closer to 2-3 M.

Beat40 said:

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Farmer1906 said:

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Here is what my gut tells me about the offseason. Medium to minimal change. I could see some changes within the coaching staff, but I think Joe is back. Same with Dana. He might mix in a few new people, but he's back too. I don't think we spend any crazy money, but 2-3 mid-level types to backfill Caratini, a bullpen arm, etc. I think the signature offseason move is trading for a starter. Someone with a high ceiling who hasn't reached it yet, with at least 2 years of control. I think we run it back with largely the same roster. I don't really hate that idea.

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This is inline with my thoughts, although I'm less bullish on Joe being back. I'm really curious to see what happens when the Tigers get bounced. Probably nothing there, but Tigers extension talks with Hinch slowed as they skidded into the post-season. If Tigers get bounced in the WC or round 1, I wonder how their talks shift and where Crane's mind goes.

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I think Joe SHOULD be fired for the way he handled Framber. I think he will get a pass and if Framber leaves (which I expect, we will give a perfunctory QO and thats it) I think the clubhouse improves overnight and Joe gets a fresh start.

I would take AJ back in a heartbeat if that was possible. I dont think that is possible. That bridge got torn down.

Yeah, I just don't see value in carrying the 6.5 IF you have listed.

If Paredes acts as a super-utility, that eats into playing time for Urias and Dubon. It essentially makes Dubon a pure OF, which leads you to question whether he or Cole, for example, is more valuable as a reserve OF.

To me, if you move Walker, then you are set in the IF. If you keep Walker and leave Paredes positionless, then you have to move a reserve. Six should be the max here, and of course Dubon gives super value here since he can be a reserve in 8 spots.

M&M want Mackenzie Gore badly and Dana is going to try his best to get it done

texasaggie2015 said:

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M&M want Mackenzie Gore badly and Dana is going to try his best to get it done

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He is going to cost a lot, but I would be down. A very fair replacement for Framber.

Mathguy64 said:

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Beat40 said:

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Farmer1906 said:

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Here is what my gut tells me about the offseason. Medium to minimal change. I could see some changes within the coaching staff, but I think Joe is back. Same with Dana. He might mix in a few new people, but he's back too. I don't think we spend any crazy money, but 2-3 mid-level types to backfill Caratini, a bullpen arm, etc. I think the signature offseason move is trading for a starter. Someone with a high ceiling who hasn't reached it yet, with at least 2 years of control. I think we run it back with largely the same roster. I don't really hate that idea.

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This is inline with my thoughts, although I'm less bullish on Joe being back. I'm really curious to see what happens when the Tigers get bounced. Probably nothing there, but Tigers extension talks with Hinch slowed as they skidded into the post-season. If Tigers get bounced in the WC or round 1, I wonder how their talks shift and where Crane's mind goes.

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I think Joe SHOULD be fired for the way he handled Framber. I think he will get a pass and if Framber leaves (which I expect, we will give a perfunctory QO and thats it) I think the clubhouse improves overnight and Joe gets a fresh start.

I would take AJ back in a heartbeat if that was possible. I dont think that is possible. That bridge got torn down.

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How did Joe handle the Framber situation?

I can't answer accurately that question. I suspect no one this board except for 2015 can't accurately answer that question, and 2015 MIGHT be able to get some insight, but I doubt it.

Joe could have told Dana he wanted to skip Framber's start in the rotation as a punishment, but Dana said no. Dana could have recommended a skipped start or another punishment to Crane and Crane could have said no.

There are many possibilities. If it's been leaked out how he's handled it, I will admit I've missed it, but I don't think it has.

These guys are adults and Joe has only so many options to handle situations like that. He can't take away his dessert or cell phone.

I'm at the point where I don't care if Joe is back or not, but I think the Framber situation is more on Framber than it is on Joe. Even after the issue with Framber and Yanier the game before they tried giving him someone he really hasn't worked with as a fresh start. Framber was just done with being an Astro after the ASB for whatever reason. Maybe it was because of Joe, maybe it was because the Astros wouldn't commit to a new deal. Not going to know unless the parties involved come out and tell the truth.

Ketch addressed Framber on the previous page

It's probably been mentioned here before, but Dusty probably foresaw the issues with Framber and other catchers not named Maldonado.

October 2, 1976.
JR Richard wins his 20th game of the year with a complete game 4 hitter with 13 strikeouts and also goes 3 for 4 with an RBI single and a two-run home run.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/HOU/HOU197610020.shtml

1976 was the year JR put it all together. From 76-79, he was 68-48, his ERAs were 2.75, 2.97, 3.11, and 2.71 (led the league), and he averaged 261 strikeouts per year.

I'm going to have to chalk up the 1979 Cy Young vote to racism, I guess.

Bruce Sutter won it for the Cubs, going 6-6 with a 2.22 ERA and 37 saves. He had 72 votes. The Cubs finished 5th in the NL East with an 80-82 record.

Joe Niekro finished second with 66 votes. he was 21-11 with a 3.00 ERA and a whopping 119 strikeouts.

JR was third with 41 votes despite going 18-13 and leading the league in ERA (2.71) and strikeouts (313). Before JR struck out 303 in 1978, the last NL pitcher to fan 300+ had been Sandy Koufax in 1966.

Beat40 said:

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If you decide to rebuild now, you're guaranteeing 3 years minimum really bad seasons. Then, after that, it's hoping year after year your team will at least make the steps back to .500 to then springboard to 90+ wins. Again, what the Astros did from 2011-2014 and then the success coming in 2015 is really rare. Please remember that.

It could work out, but it just seems like a hell of a knee jerk reaction. I know you're in the camp of firing hitting coaches and Joe. D you think this team has the talent to win the division next year given we don't lose the most WAR to injury next season and there are new coaches?

That's where the struggle is for me with going straight to a rebuild. Injuries quite literally ****ed the Astros last year, we miss the post season one year, and it's time to blow it up.

As a fan - I want to watch my team play post-season baseball. I think there is a path to do that the next 2 years at minimum if the right SP and BP guys are added. Where I sit right now, I'm willing to gamble for a shot at 2 more pennants and maybe struggle 5-10 years after that.

Just doesn't also sit well with me to basically tell Altuve to **** off in his final years of his career.

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I tend to agree with you unless we get Luhnow and/or some of his eval guys back to pick the prospects and do the draft picks. My opinion is that if we are just going to run it back again next year with no changes to the coaching staff and everybody a year old, then just go ahead and start the rebuild. Over and above the injuries, everybody hitting except Jake and JP had sub-par years versus their historical averages. We have a heavily RHH club with aging players and an overstaffed IF/DH situation. I don't think it is viable to not do anything other than add a SP and shore up the BP.

I would much prefer that we get some new coaches (hitting at least, but I also don't think Joe is the guy), and make some targeted trades to increase the flexibility of our infield. Paredes needs to be an every day guy for us and he can't do that if Walker is playing 1B every day and Correa is the everyday 3B, unless you think Paredes can handle 2B, but then how do you get Yordan DH chances if Altuve is stuck there?

Having Yordan and Altuve both better off as a DH than in the field is a problem that will stick around until one of them is gone. I think Urias has more potential upside than Dubon and would prefer to see us platoon Cam and Sanchez in RF and have Cole/Dezenzo to backup CF/LF depending on who is DHing. Packaging up one of those guys with Walker to get a LHH 2B with some power would solve a lot of issues.

SpaceCityAg05 said:

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The issue is we have a roster glut even before you consider upgrading.

The roster you just proposed has 14 position players.

No matter how you cut it, a minimum of one player has to be traded from this list: Walker, Paredes, Peña, Urias, Dubon.

You cannot carry 7 infielders, so either you tradr Walker and put Paredes at 1B, or you go the super-flexibility route and move Paredes around in the IF, ehich necessitates moving one of Urias or Dubon.

With a reserve catcher and two backup IF (even if one is Dubon who can play OF), you can only carry one reserve OF. Is Meyers, Smith, Sanchez, Cole that set? What do you do with Trammell, Melton, etc.

All in all, we have several players who will need to be traded just due to roster limitations, so it will be interesting to see how that roster math is leveraged when discussing trades and/or upgrades.

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All of this. We have too many infielders and too many DH candidates. We need to move somebody to make space for Parades to play every day, as his bat was one of the bright spots in the lineup this year and I think his patience at the place paid dividends for Pena hitting ahead of him and Altuve hitting behind him.

People may not like it. Move Correa to short, Paredes to third and trade Pena since we likely wont resign him. I would think that's maybe a 1% chance

Chef Elko said:

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People may not like it. Move Correa to short, Paredes to third and trade Pena since we likely wont resign him. I would think that's maybe a 1% chance

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Correa cannot physically play shortstop on a daily basis anymore. It's part of the reason he was hurt so much in Minnesota.

Chef Elko said:

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People may not like it. Move Correa to short, Paredes to third and trade Pena since we likely wont resign him. I would think that's maybe a 1% chance

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I think we need to squeeze every bit of cheap production out of Pena that we can. If he walks, he walks.

That ain't gonna happen.

Correa is a better fit at 3B and Paredes is a better fit at 1B.

Detroit adds 4 more in the 7th. Up 6-1 and still batting. Looks like this might be the end of the line for Cleveland.

Sex Panther said:

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texasaggie2015 said:

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I wouldn't be surprised if they signed JV to a cheap one year deal.

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I'd love it... He's one of my all time favorite players and I want him going to Cooperstown in an Astros hat

Also, he was pretty solid the second half of the season

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I saw him pitch at Arizona late September and he looked vintage. 7 innings, 2 hits, 0 runs.

Ag_07 said:

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That ain't gonna happen.

Correa is a better fit at 3B and Paredes is a better fit at 1B.

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If only you didn't have an immovable object at 1B….

You think playing 3B isn't just as demanding? Lots of diving at the hot corner.

txags92 said:

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MaxPower said:

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You think playing 3B isn't just as demanding? Lots of diving at the hot corner.

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With no running to cover 2B and turn DPs. Carlos is on record already saying how much easier playing 3B has been on his body.

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I guess. Maybe he should talk to Caminiti and Ensberg about how easy 3B is on the body.

Chef Elko said:

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People may not like it. Move Correa to short, Paredes to third and trade Pena since we likely wont resign him. I would think that's maybe a 1% chance

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Correa doesn't want to go back to SS and I don't think there is any way we move Pena before next year unless we are burning it all down. We are better packing up Walker with one of the Young OFs not named Cam Smith and getting a 2B with some pop and preferably LHH.

MaxPower said:

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Yes agreed we are better off taking another team to the woodshed in a trade but I hope the team's offseason plans are built on more than praying for miracles. No one is giving you anything for CW. It will be like Pressly where you eat some salary and get a low A dart toss.

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Walker has value if he is going to a NL team. He tore it up hitting them in 2025. You may have to eat some of his salary to make it work, but packaging him with a AAAA outfield guy should get you a quality MLB player in return. With Pressly, the goal was to ditch his salary, so by letting the cubs eat most of it, we weren't going to get much in return. Walker has value, just not full contract value if he is playing half his games at Daikin. He would kill it if the Rockies wanted him.

Yu Darvish getting pulled in the second inning with the bases loaded and nobody out. Clearly the only reasonable explanation is that the Cubs are cheating. That's how this works, right?

How about Walker and Brice to STL for Donovan?

Wabs said:

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How about Walker and Brice to STL for Donovan?

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I think the Cards would laugh at that.