Irwin M. Fletcher said:

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Well once you hit critical mass in your retirement of around $500,000 that's when compounding really takes effect. You'll make much more or possibly lose in a down market but generally make more in just compounding than what you can contribute. I read your post and you said you have $2MM. So if you have to back off contributing for financial reasons you'll be fine. A 20% up market is 400k. I realize we could have a bear and you could lose (on paper ) a lot but just stay the course it will go up over time.

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EliteZags said:

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just curious in what situation has the FA recommending no longer contributing to Roth
imagine I plan to max backdoor remainder of my working years and even beyond in regular if have enough side income after

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Proposition Joe said:

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Tex117 said:

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Proposition Joe said:

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You shouldn't compare yourself to the joneses.

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The Joneses wasn't really my point. It was a description of a certain type of person (they tend to tell you how well their asset classes do) in certain asset classes and why boring can really feel boring (because its less socially acceptable to brag about how much a basic brokerage/401k goes up). But is incredibly effective long term.

But, one shouldn't compare themselves to the Joneses anyway. I didn't say anything about parents helping them out...or whatever.

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Like I said I agree with the bulk of your post, but you made the tortoise and the hare comparison -- implying that those cryptobros and the like got out to a fast start and like to point out how fast they've accumulated wealth but the guys grinding away making sacrifices at their corporate job socking x% away every year will be the ones to finish the race first.

And I'm pointing out that if you're going to play the comparison game, you shouldn't assume the "hares" aren't going to finish the race first. Because many of them are -- in fact I'd say just from an overall wealth standpoint those hares (cryptobros, tech traders) will make up a far larger percentage of newly minted millionaires/multi-millionaires/whatever than the tortoises slogging away at their W-2 jobs.

To use another animal analogy -- there are a lot of different ways to skin a cat. Don't assume the guys doing it faster than you aren't also doing it better.

Be happy getting to where you want to get, don't try and cheapen others who are where they are.

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Irwin M. Fletcher said:

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Tex117 said:

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The boring way really is THE WAY.

Its definitely hard to do it this way as it is well...boring. CryptoBros, tech traders, and all of that are super flashy and happily yell to the world how much crypto has gone up. Real Estate people also have absolutely zero issue with telling the world how much zillow thinks their property has increased.

It always feels like everyone is making more money doing the flashy stuff than you because...they are telling you. (I think its tacky to talk about money in general, but for whatever reason, these investment classes, people talk about and is somewhat socially acceptable).

Then there are is the boring way. For whatever reason, its viewed more tacky to just say "yeah, my investment accounts are well over a million, and its not uncommon to make 20-30k in a day (or lose it for that matter)." That same person bragging about their crypto or real estate then, immediately, gets all scuffy.

Also, the boring way takes awhile to get going. Getting to that first million is a slog. There are alot of sacrifices to be made at a time in life when lots of others are really going HAM on spending (young families). But then, almost like when you wake up and find yourself old (you aren't that old, probably early 40s), you are a millionaire...where your money is going to make money for you and you will retire a multi-millionaire sometime in your 50s.

Its a classic tortoise and the hare.

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Agree with this. One thing I'll also say is a lot of people on this thread have talked about wanting to enjoy life and not worried about how much they accumulate. I'm 54, and I lived below my means but we still enjoyed vacations and doing a lot of things. Even able to send my kids to private school. I also have had season tickets to A&M games for 15 years with my good friends. My wife even drove a Lexus but I bought it used and never had debt on a car. Had a very reasonable mortgage. I'll just say this I agree everyone is different and I really enjoy just saving and investing, like Warren Buffett does. Just watching it grow. Others want other things and that's great, but if you aren't putting at least 15% of your income in retirement or investments and don't have at least three months of expenses in cash and you're going out to eat or making car payments on a depreciating asset you are a stupid person period. This is not an opinion, it just is. At least do 15% and 3 months, after that do what makes you happy.

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TXTransplant said:

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Question: I realize this is anecdotal, and every situation will be different but that's ok.

Once you reached the 1MM mark, how long did it take you to double that? And then double that again?

It's taken me 5 years to go from 1MM to 2 (2020-2025). I realize that there are tons of factors and variables in this, but I'm curious and just want to hear different experiences.

All answers are appreciated, but my specific situation is a corporate cube-dweller maxing out 401k, HSA, Roth, IRA, etc., as well as a modest personal investment account. No stock options, windfalls, or real estate sales. Home equity excluded from that number. I'm asking about growth of cash savings/investments.

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EvenPar said:

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If one were to do that, does Vanguard or similar companies offer lines of credit on invested capital?

That's a large benefit for some that have millions with an FA, is the opportunity to arbitrage from a LOC.

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Irwin M. Fletcher said:

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Tex117 said:

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The boring way really is THE WAY.

Its definitely hard to do it this way as it is well...boring. CryptoBros, tech traders, and all of that are super flashy and happily yell to the world how much crypto has gone up. Real Estate people also have absolutely zero issue with telling the world how much zillow thinks their property has increased.

It always feels like everyone is making more money doing the flashy stuff than you because...they are telling you. (I think its tacky to talk about money in general, but for whatever reason, these investment classes, people talk about and is somewhat socially acceptable).

Then there are is the boring way. For whatever reason, its viewed more tacky to just say "yeah, my investment accounts are well over a million, and its not uncommon to make 20-30k in a day (or lose it for that matter)." That same person bragging about their crypto or real estate then, immediately, gets all scuffy.

Also, the boring way takes awhile to get going. Getting to that first million is a slog. There are alot of sacrifices to be made at a time in life when lots of others are really going HAM on spending (young families). But then, almost like when you wake up and find yourself old (you aren't that old, probably early 40s), you are a millionaire...where your money is going to make money for you and you will retire a multi-millionaire sometime in your 50s.

Its a classic tortoise and the hare.

---

Agree with this. One thing I'll also say is a lot of people on this thread have talked about wanting to enjoy life and not worried about how much they accumulate. I'm 54, and I lived below my means but we still enjoyed vacations and doing a lot of things. Even able to send my kids to private school. I also have had season tickets to A&M games for 15 years with my good friends. My wife even drove a Lexus but I bought it used and never had debt on a car. Had a very reasonable mortgage. I'll just say this I agree everyone is different and I really enjoy just saving and investing, like Warren Buffett does. Just watching it grow. Others want other things and that's great, but if you aren't putting at least 15% of your income in retirement or investments and don't have at least three months of expenses in cash and you're going out to eat or making car payments on a depreciating asset you are a stupid person period. This is not an opinion, it just is. At least do 15% and 3 months, after that do what makes you happy.

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Tex117 said:

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Proposition Joe said:

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Tex117 said:

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Proposition Joe said:

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You shouldn't compare yourself to the joneses.

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The Joneses wasn't really my point. It was a description of a certain type of person (they tend to tell you how well their asset classes do) in certain asset classes and why boring can really feel boring (because its less socially acceptable to brag about how much a basic brokerage/401k goes up). But is incredibly effective long term.

But, one shouldn't compare themselves to the Joneses anyway. I didn't say anything about parents helping them out...or whatever.

---

Like I said I agree with the bulk of your post, but you made the tortoise and the hare comparison -- implying that those cryptobros and the like got out to a fast start and like to point out how fast they've accumulated wealth but the guys grinding away making sacrifices at their corporate job socking x% away every year will be the ones to finish the race first.

And I'm pointing out that if you're going to play the comparison game, you shouldn't assume the "hares" aren't going to finish the race first. Because many of them are -- in fact I'd say just from an overall wealth standpoint those hares (cryptobros, tech traders) will make up a far larger percentage of newly minted millionaires/multi-millionaires/whatever than the tortoises slogging away at their W-2 jobs.

To use another animal analogy -- there are a lot of different ways to skin a cat. Don't assume the guys doing it faster than you aren't also doing it better.

Be happy getting to where you want to get, don't try and cheapen others who are where they are.

---

Wasn't the discussion I was really wanting to have, but here we are.

Sure, in some cases the hare will wiin. But, in some cases, the hare will lose. The hares don't often tell you when they lose alot, or that their real estate value isn't going up as much. Etc. Etc.

This is a strange tangent.

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Texag5324 said:

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TXTransplant said:

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Irwin M. Fletcher said:

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Well once you hit critical mass in your retirement of around $500,000 that's when compounding really takes effect. You'll make much more or possibly lose in a down market but generally make more in just compounding than what you can contribute. I read your post and you said you have $2MM. So if you have to back off contributing for financial reasons you'll be fine. A 20% up market is 400k. I realize we could have a bear and you could lose (on paper ) a lot but just stay the course it will go up over time.

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That's helpful, too. Worst case scenario would be I have to stop contributing completely for some period of time. If that happened, I would also lose my pension (which will prob contribute somewhere in the 400-500k range, if I retire at 55).

401k, Roth, and IRA are right around 1.4MM. Of those 3, the only account I'm actively adding to is the 401k. The other 2 are growth only.

I have a really great FA, but we actually haven't discussed worst case scenario.

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One thing you could do to give yourself an immediate raise is stop using a financial advisor and manage everything on your own. With your net worth, you are likely paying $10k+ a year for them to manage your finances. Thats hundreds of thousands of dollars in overall fees you're paying throughout your lifetime.

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AgsMyDude said:

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Irwin M. Fletcher said:

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Tex117 said:

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The boring way really is THE WAY.

Its definitely hard to do it this way as it is well...boring. CryptoBros, tech traders, and all of that are super flashy and happily yell to the world how much crypto has gone up. Real Estate people also have absolutely zero issue with telling the world how much zillow thinks their property has increased.

It always feels like everyone is making more money doing the flashy stuff than you because...they are telling you. (I think its tacky to talk about money in general, but for whatever reason, these investment classes, people talk about and is somewhat socially acceptable).

Then there are is the boring way. For whatever reason, its viewed more tacky to just say "yeah, my investment accounts are well over a million, and its not uncommon to make 20-30k in a day (or lose it for that matter)." That same person bragging about their crypto or real estate then, immediately, gets all scuffy.

Also, the boring way takes awhile to get going. Getting to that first million is a slog. There are alot of sacrifices to be made at a time in life when lots of others are really going HAM on spending (young families). But then, almost like when you wake up and find yourself old (you aren't that old, probably early 40s), you are a millionaire...where your money is going to make money for you and you will retire a multi-millionaire sometime in your 50s.

Its a classic tortoise and the hare.

---

Agree with this. One thing I'll also say is a lot of people on this thread have talked about wanting to enjoy life and not worried about how much they accumulate. I'm 54, and I lived below my means but we still enjoyed vacations and doing a lot of things. Even able to send my kids to private school. I also have had season tickets to A&M games for 15 years with my good friends. My wife even drove a Lexus but I bought it used and never had debt on a car. Had a very reasonable mortgage. I'll just say this I agree everyone is different and I really enjoy just saving and investing, like Warren Buffett does. Just watching it grow. Others want other things and that's great, but if you aren't putting at least 15% of your income in retirement or investments and don't have at least three months of expenses in cash and you're going out to eat or making car payments on a depreciating asset you are a stupid person period. This is not an opinion, it just is. At least do 15% and 3 months, after that do what makes you happy.

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Does a stupid person take advantage of a 1.95% loan on an 8-year-old used vehicle, and invest the rest in the market, as opposed to paying cash up front?

Asking for a friend

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Tex117 said:

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Irwin M. Fletcher said:

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Tex117 said:

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The boring way really is THE WAY.

Its definitely hard to do it this way as it is well...boring. CryptoBros, tech traders, and all of that are super flashy and happily yell to the world how much crypto has gone up. Real Estate people also have absolutely zero issue with telling the world how much zillow thinks their property has increased.

It always feels like everyone is making more money doing the flashy stuff than you because...they are telling you. (I think its tacky to talk about money in general, but for whatever reason, these investment classes, people talk about and is somewhat socially acceptable).

Then there are is the boring way. For whatever reason, its viewed more tacky to just say "yeah, my investment accounts are well over a million, and its not uncommon to make 20-30k in a day (or lose it for that matter)." That same person bragging about their crypto or real estate then, immediately, gets all scuffy.

Also, the boring way takes awhile to get going. Getting to that first million is a slog. There are alot of sacrifices to be made at a time in life when lots of others are really going HAM on spending (young families). But then, almost like when you wake up and find yourself old (you aren't that old, probably early 40s), you are a millionaire...where your money is going to make money for you and you will retire a multi-millionaire sometime in your 50s.

Its a classic tortoise and the hare.

---

Agree with this. One thing I'll also say is a lot of people on this thread have talked about wanting to enjoy life and not worried about how much they accumulate. I'm 54, and I lived below my means but we still enjoyed vacations and doing a lot of things. Even able to send my kids to private school. I also have had season tickets to A&M games for 15 years with my good friends. My wife even drove a Lexus but I bought it used and never had debt on a car. Had a very reasonable mortgage. I'll just say this I agree everyone is different and I really enjoy just saving and investing, like Warren Buffett does. Just watching it grow. Others want other things and that's great, but if you aren't putting at least 15% of your income in retirement or investments and don't have at least three months of expenses in cash and you're going out to eat or making car payments on a depreciating asset you are a stupid person period. This is not an opinion, it just is. At least do 15% and 3 months, after that do what makes you happy.

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Good advice. I know for me, Im going to have a hard time following it (ie, forcing myself to spend it). There is a number I have in mind that when I hit it, I may be able to start loosening the reigns.

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Irwin M. Fletcher said:

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AgsMyDude said:

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Irwin M. Fletcher said:

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Tex117 said:

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The boring way really is THE WAY.

Its definitely hard to do it this way as it is well...boring. CryptoBros, tech traders, and all of that are super flashy and happily yell to the world how much crypto has gone up. Real Estate people also have absolutely zero issue with telling the world how much zillow thinks their property has increased.

It always feels like everyone is making more money doing the flashy stuff than you because...they are telling you. (I think its tacky to talk about money in general, but for whatever reason, these investment classes, people talk about and is somewhat socially acceptable).

Then there are is the boring way. For whatever reason, its viewed more tacky to just say "yeah, my investment accounts are well over a million, and its not uncommon to make 20-30k in a day (or lose it for that matter)." That same person bragging about their crypto or real estate then, immediately, gets all scuffy.

Also, the boring way takes awhile to get going. Getting to that first million is a slog. There are alot of sacrifices to be made at a time in life when lots of others are really going HAM on spending (young families). But then, almost like when you wake up and find yourself old (you aren't that old, probably early 40s), you are a millionaire...where your money is going to make money for you and you will retire a multi-millionaire sometime in your 50s.

Its a classic tortoise and the hare.

---

Agree with this. One thing I'll also say is a lot of people on this thread have talked about wanting to enjoy life and not worried about how much they accumulate. I'm 54, and I lived below my means but we still enjoyed vacations and doing a lot of things. Even able to send my kids to private school. I also have had season tickets to A&M games for 15 years with my good friends. My wife even drove a Lexus but I bought it used and never had debt on a car. Had a very reasonable mortgage. I'll just say this I agree everyone is different and I really enjoy just saving and investing, like Warren Buffett does. Just watching it grow. Others want other things and that's great, but if you aren't putting at least 15% of your income in retirement or investments and don't have at least three months of expenses in cash and you're going out to eat or making car payments on a depreciating asset you are a stupid person period. This is not an opinion, it just is. At least do 15% and 3 months, after that do what makes you happy.

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Does a stupid person take advantage of a 1.95% loan on an 8-year-old used vehicle, and invest the rest in the market, as opposed to paying cash up front?

Asking for a friend

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I get your point, but remember this isn't t a house that will go up in value over time. This is a rapidly depreciating asset and you need to include that in your calculus. Plus if it's 8 years old how expensive can it be? I'd just pay it off as quick as I could then drive it forever.

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BenTheGoodAg said:

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I'm not there yet, but will easily outpace where I was targeting in my 20's. To be fair, my life is different than I planned in my 20's too.

But back to your comment about the compounding effect of a $500,000 nest egg - not only does that larger nest egg start to do the heavy lifting in growing your portfolio, but it also starts relieving the pressure to perform and support your family on your income (or more accurately, the fear of failing to perform). At least it did for me. And with that pressure going down, I've felt a lot more at ease with loosening up.

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Dr T and the Women said:

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You can get an asset based loan without a FA.

I am in the private bank at JPM and self manage.

All the big banks will lend against your portfolio

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Irwin M. Fletcher said:

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AgsMyDude said:

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Irwin M. Fletcher said:

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Tex117 said:

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The boring way really is THE WAY.

Its definitely hard to do it this way as it is well...boring. CryptoBros, tech traders, and all of that are super flashy and happily yell to the world how much crypto has gone up. Real Estate people also have absolutely zero issue with telling the world how much zillow thinks their property has increased.

It always feels like everyone is making more money doing the flashy stuff than you because...they are telling you. (I think its tacky to talk about money in general, but for whatever reason, these investment classes, people talk about and is somewhat socially acceptable).

Then there are is the boring way. For whatever reason, its viewed more tacky to just say "yeah, my investment accounts are well over a million, and its not uncommon to make 20-30k in a day (or lose it for that matter)." That same person bragging about their crypto or real estate then, immediately, gets all scuffy.

Also, the boring way takes awhile to get going. Getting to that first million is a slog. There are alot of sacrifices to be made at a time in life when lots of others are really going HAM on spending (young families). But then, almost like when you wake up and find yourself old (you aren't that old, probably early 40s), you are a millionaire...where your money is going to make money for you and you will retire a multi-millionaire sometime in your 50s.

Its a classic tortoise and the hare.

---

Agree with this. One thing I'll also say is a lot of people on this thread have talked about wanting to enjoy life and not worried about how much they accumulate. I'm 54, and I lived below my means but we still enjoyed vacations and doing a lot of things. Even able to send my kids to private school. I also have had season tickets to A&M games for 15 years with my good friends. My wife even drove a Lexus but I bought it used and never had debt on a car. Had a very reasonable mortgage. I'll just say this I agree everyone is different and I really enjoy just saving and investing, like Warren Buffett does. Just watching it grow. Others want other things and that's great, but if you aren't putting at least 15% of your income in retirement or investments and don't have at least three months of expenses in cash and you're going out to eat or making car payments on a depreciating asset you are a stupid person period. This is not an opinion, it just is. At least do 15% and 3 months, after that do what makes you happy.

---

Does a stupid person take advantage of a 1.95% loan on an 8-year-old used vehicle, and invest the rest in the market, as opposed to paying cash up front?

Asking for a friend

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I get your point, but remember this isn't t a house that will go up in value over time. This is a rapidly depreciating asset and you need to include that in your calculus. Plus if it's 8 years old how expensive can it be? I'd just pay it off as quick as I could then drive it forever.

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SnowboardAg said:

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Just heard DR (not that I listen to him) say that no more than 50% of your annual income should be in cars / wheels. He said millionaires are even more conservative than that.

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bagger05 said:

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I assume we are talking about asset value of the vehicles over annual income?.

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bagger05 said:

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SnowboardAg said:

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Just heard DR (not that I listen to him) say that no more than 50% of your annual income should be in cars / wheels. He said millionaires are even more conservative than that.

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I assume we are talking about asset value of the vehicles over annual income?

Probably not a bad rule of thumb. If you're making $50k per year having a $25k car. Seems reasonable.

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Hoyt Ag said:

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I dont want to think about my wheels total. I paid cash for them all but it would be a scary sight. 2 Harleys, F350, flatbed trailer, 5th Wheel and side by side. I might give DR a heart attack.

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LMCane said:

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Hoyt Ag said:

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I dont want to think about my wheels total. I paid cash for them all but it would be a scary sight. 2 Harleys, F350, flatbed trailer, 5th Wheel and side by side. I might give DR a heart attack.

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what's your net worth (not including your home)?

I see a ton of people in Maryland with F350s living in near trailer parks.

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