What's your bitcoin and crypto allocation?

6,285 Views | 128 Replies | Last: 27 days ago by MRB10
Heineken-Ashi
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LMCane said:

H-A I always appreciate your reasoned analysis

but if that is the case- then you are basically claiming there is NO safe haven except for cash (which will be losing value to inflation)

I would be interested to hear your solution to the problem you have artfully explained as to what to do with our portfolios

If we ever enter a structured deleveraging, then cash is the only safe place. Specifically, cash in a safe bank. We would actually be dealing with DEFLATION. Every day that goes by would increase purchasing power as assets fall in price against the dollar.

But if QE is generally successful, whether by the FED or by the banks through stablecoin bank reserve monetization, the next round of inflation would be around the corner, with potential for a wave of hyperinflation due to the extreme levels of debt spiraling. In that case, history shows the first step is a steep selloff in everything that eventually finds a bottom (2007 top took years to bottom, 2020 took months), followed by a V-shaped recovery and eventual blastoff. But I wouldn't want to be in any companies with significant debt, as new inflation means higher interest rates which would crush anyone with debt.

There's also the potential they try yield curve control which would idiotic in my opinion. Coming out of WW2, the only other period debt/GDP was close to where we are now, they did YCC using open market operations to try and peg rates to a low level. Rates bounced around for a while, and then launched into the famous inflation wave of the 70's and 80's, a period that ultimately ended in decades of stagflation and took until the mid 80's for SPX to ultimately break out and reward anything that was held prior to the 70's. But even then, with debt/GDP extremely high thanks to war time spending blowouts, and while the debt was high, the US implemented massive tax hikes, declining military spending, and massive industrial growth that led to budget surpluses. Social security, medicare and medicaid, and other mandatory spending were a tiny fraction of what they are now.

Trump is absolutely trying to usher in the kinds of policies that we performed back then, except he's not raising taxes and not decreasing military spending. He's also hamstrung with the social program spending and a congress that refuses to cut more than a single hair on an 80's hair metal singer's head. So AI and manufacturing led productivity booms have pretty much no chance of even slowing the spending. There will be no surplus at the same time that there will be no increased taxes. Tariffs aren't going to get us to a surplus. So if they try YCC, the bond market is absolutely going to call their bluff. I don't see stagflation as the outcome this time.
jamey
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AG
Is "cash" in the typical 401K in a stable value fund safe. Mine and probably most 401Ks dont have a place for true cash


Its either in a fund or stable value fund earning ~2% per year
Heineken-Ashi
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jamey said:

Is "cash" in the typical 401K in a stable value fund safe. Mine and probably most 401Ks dont have a place for true cash


Its either in a fund or stable value fund earning ~2% per year

I don't think I can know the answer to that. I would want to know what is backing that cash. Because it's not just sitting a bank with them as custodian. It's likely in treasuries. Technically "safe", but not immune from drawdowns in an inflationary cycle that crushes bond values. If an inflationary scenario happens and you are close to retirement, it could be iffy. But I genuinely don't know for sure.
jamey
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AG
Looks like they invest in short to intermediate bonds woth short duration, along with purchased insurance to to guard against day to day price volitility of interest rates

Apparently it also invests heavily in non US equity in some way, and is poorly explained.

Sounds crappy

Heineken-Ashi
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jamey said:

Looks like they invest in short to intermediate bonds woth short duration, along with purchased insurance to to guard against day to day price volitility of interest rates

Apparently it also invests heavily in non US equity in some way, and is poorly explained.

Sounds crappy



Why I've always hated 401k "cash" positions. It's not cash. The money isn't there. Same with your money in the banks. Which is why you should be absolutely sure your bank is capitalized in a safe a manner as possible. My rule of thumb is.. if they are paying high interest to acquire new deposits, your money isn't safe.
jamey
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AG
I guess if it looks like financial Armageddon is upon us I could roll the 401K into an IRA and leave it in actual cash.

I use Wells Fargo for my brokerage
Heineken-Ashi
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jamey said:

I guess if it looks like financial Armageddon is upon us I could roll the 401K into an IRA and leave it in actual cash.

I use Wells Fargo for my brokerage

Oh boy..


Wells Fargo Is Developing A Big Problem - SaferBankingResearch
Wells Fargo: Looking Even Uglier Under The Hood - SaferBankingResearch
Don't Be Fooled - Big Banks Have Much More Risk Than Smaller Ones - SaferBankingResearch
jamey
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AG
Heineken-Ashi said:

jamey said:

I guess if it looks like financial Armageddon is upon us I could roll the 401K into an IRA and leave it in actual cash.

I use Wells Fargo for my brokerage

Oh boy..


Wells Fargo Is Developing A Big Problem - SaferBankingResearch
Wells Fargo: Looking Even Uglier Under The Hood - SaferBankingResearch
Don't Be Fooled - Big Banks Have Much More Risk Than Smaller Ones - SaferBankingResearch


Awesome, but I think even if WF went down I'd still own whatever mutual funds, ETFs...etc I have thru them. Theyre just paid to buy on my behalf

But I suppose cash could be an issue. Not sure if cash in a brokerage is insured
YouBet
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AG
This is why I keep two years of cash on hand. Now, the other half of that equation as H-A has stated is if I have it in the right bank. If it didn't make me feel so curmudgeony, hell, I might keep 3 years on hand and maybe I still will.

All of our cash is at Goldman so may not be the best place based on fundamentals if there is a major bank collapse. I still have to figure out my real risk of that.
jamey
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AG
Heineken-Ashi
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But people like that won't recognize that for THAT EXACT REASON, BTC is not a hedge. It does the same thing stocks do. Up when risk is on. Down when risk is off.
jamey
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AG
Heineken-Ashi said:

But people like that won't recognize that for THAT EXACT REASON, BTC is not a hedge. It does the same thing stocks do. Up when risk is on. Down when risk is off.


There has been times recently when the market goes down and BTC goes up, granted not many data points.

Perhaps it's changing to be what it's suppose to be. I do think there's reason to believe past behavior is not always future behavior for anything thats relatively new.

Ive seen where approximately 28% of US adults now hold bitcoin in some form.
Proposition Joe
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The whole idea of having the right currency in the right financial institution in case of a real market/financial collapse is akin to threading a needle.

If that is your concern, then you may as well spend the money now on doomsday prepping.
jamey
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AG
Proposition Joe said:

The whole idea of having the right currency in the right financial institution in case of a real market/financial collapse is akin to threading a needle.

If that is your concern, then you may as well spend the money now on doomsday prepping.


That actually makes me feel better about it. Just dont want to think, damn should have done X or Y.

Who knows, maybe ot doesn't happen in my lifetime but it seems more and more likely. I use to think it was more likely in kids or grandkids lifetime
Tormentos
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I'm at 6.8% across total portfolio [brokerage/ira/401k/cash position, crypto]. Majority in BTC with smaller positions in ETH and XRP. Have been shifting some of the BTC over to ETH the past two weeks.
jamey
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AG
Who's right

One guy talking like bitcoin is the arch enemy of ethereum




Tom Lee saying bitcoin is the blockchain network ethereum resides on


Yukon Cornelius
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AG
There's been extreme tribalism in the crypto world. Much to the detriment of many's net worth.
Heineken-Ashi
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Proposition Joe said:

The whole idea of having the right currency in the right financial institution in case of a real market/financial collapse is akin to threading a needle.

If that is your concern, then you may as well spend the money now on doomsday prepping.

Comments like this are to easy to say. But it doesn't take a lot of effort to game out scenarios and educate yourself on risk profiles of banks. Nobody is saying move all your wealth to cash in a low levered credit union, which is what you're projecting. But being educated and fairly prepared to pivot when the times is right is prudent and responsible. What's irresponsible is "you can't predict it so dont even try. Just be part of the herd".

I'll stick with preparation.
Proposition Joe
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jamey said:

Proposition Joe said:

The whole idea of having the right currency in the right financial institution in case of a real market/financial collapse is akin to threading a needle.

If that is your concern, then you may as well spend the money now on doomsday prepping.


That actually makes me feel better about it. Just dont want to think, damn should have done X or Y.

Who knows, maybe ot doesn't happen in my lifetime but it seems more and more likely. I use to think it was more likely in kids or grandkids lifetime

I think there will definitely be opportunities missed on the upside -- where the guy who was invested in this specific crypto or whatever financial instrument may suddenly lap everyone and become mega-rich.

But if we enter a world where the dollar goes to **** at a hyper pace or major banks go under with no acquisitions or bailouts or safety nets, then having your money in Bank X instead of Bank Y (or buried out in your backyard, or in crypto, or wherever)... it's probably not going to matter.

That's not to say that "preparation" needle can't be threaded, and one should always have a game-plan... But anyone telling you they have thought out the 5-6 different ways things could go to **** and accounted for them is akin to a doomsday prepper. Sure they may be right, but odds are they are just wasting a lot of their time not enjoying life before it goes to *****
Proposition Joe
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Heineken-Ashi said:

Proposition Joe said:

The whole idea of having the right currency in the right financial institution in case of a real market/financial collapse is akin to threading a needle.

If that is your concern, then you may as well spend the money now on doomsday prepping.

Comments like this are to easy to say. But it doesn't take a lot of effort to game out scenarios and educate yourself on risk profiles of banks. Nobody is saying move all your wealth to cash in a low levered credit union, which is what you're projecting. But being educated and fairly prepared to pivot when the times is right is prudent and responsible. What's irresponsible is "you can't predict it so dont even try. Just be part of the herd".

I'll stick with preparation.

There's a difference between being careless and trying to thread a needle on an event that could be 5, 10, 15, 20 or 200 years in the future.

Keep your money in FDIC insured banks under the deposit limit. Diversify stocks and fixed income, and stick with index funds. Yeah, that makes you part of the masses, but historically the masses get taken care of -- because guess what? If they don't, it all goes to *****

You can have a dozen scenarios gamed out, and it's unlikely whatever major event that occurs falls under any of them. And that's *IF* that major financial event happens in our lifetime. We're coming up on 100 years since The Great Depression... and I doubt even then there was a whole heck of a lot of people who had gamed out things and came out unscathed.

There's probably a greater chance of your finances getting siphoned by a cybertheft than there is being right on a major financial meltdown "sometime in the future".
Orlando Ayala Cant Read
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AG
Im absolutely expecting a btc pullback in a big way this Fall. But I also think long term its going to 500. I just dont have the time or knowledge to try to time buys and sells so im leaving it as is.
jamey
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AG
Yukon Cornelius said:

There's been extreme tribalism in the crypto world. Much to the detriment of many's net worth.


The way Tom Lee describes it, it's a symbiotic relationship and they need each other
jamey
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AG
Yukon Cornelius
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AG
I thibk he was speaking in terms of a portfolio. Not mechanically.
Heineken-Ashi
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Proposition Joe said:

jamey said:

Proposition Joe said:

The whole idea of having the right currency in the right financial institution in case of a real market/financial collapse is akin to threading a needle.

If that is your concern, then you may as well spend the money now on doomsday prepping.


That actually makes me feel better about it. Just dont want to think, damn should have done X or Y.

Who knows, maybe ot doesn't happen in my lifetime but it seems more and more likely. I use to think it was more likely in kids or grandkids lifetime

I think there will definitely be opportunities missed on the upside -- where the guy who was invested in this specific crypto or whatever financial instrument may suddenly lap everyone and become mega-rich.

But if we enter a world where the dollar goes to **** at a hyper pace or major banks go under with no acquisitions or bailouts or safety nets, then having your money in Bank X instead of Bank Y (or buried out in your backyard, or in crypto, or wherever)... it's probably not going to matter.

That's not to say that "preparation" needle can't be threaded, and one should always have a game-plan... But anyone telling you they have thought out the 5-6 different ways things could go to **** and accounted for them is akin to a doomsday prepper. Sure they may be right, but odds are they are just wasting a lot of their time not enjoying life before it goes to *****

40% of banks went under in the Great Depression. Depositors lost everything. Those that were in banks that were safer still had their deposits.

And the threat of bails ins in the future is absolutely real. Instead of going under, and in lieu of bail outs where the taxpayer is fleeced, you become an involuntary shareholder of the bank, only able to withdraw your money once it stabilizes and is able to make up for its losses, likely years at best and decades at worst.

None of the red flags that came about in the banking sector in 2022 and 2023 have been cured. In fact, the majority of banks have been feeding shadow banks which dont have the same regulatory backdrop. Their CRE is still underwater, and their bonds purchased at historic low rates are still underwater. They've taken out additional leverage to try and make up the difference, and have refrained from loaning to the public, instead sending their trashiest assets to be parked at the FED for artificially high interest.

I strongly suggest doing some research. I posted some articles above. Or you can just continue to discount and argue with anyone who advises risk management.
Heineken-Ashi
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Proposition Joe said:

Heineken-Ashi said:

Proposition Joe said:

The whole idea of having the right currency in the right financial institution in case of a real market/financial collapse is akin to threading a needle.

If that is your concern, then you may as well spend the money now on doomsday prepping.

Comments like this are to easy to say. But it doesn't take a lot of effort to game out scenarios and educate yourself on risk profiles of banks. Nobody is saying move all your wealth to cash in a low levered credit union, which is what you're projecting. But being educated and fairly prepared to pivot when the times is right is prudent and responsible. What's irresponsible is "you can't predict it so dont even try. Just be part of the herd".

I'll stick with preparation.

There's a difference between being careless and trying to thread a needle on an event that could be 5, 10, 15, 20 or 200 years in the future.

Keep your money in FDIC insured banks under the deposit limit. Diversify stocks and fixed income, and stick with index funds. Yeah, that makes you part of the masses, but historically the masses get taken care of -- because guess what? If they don't, it all goes to *****

You can have a dozen scenarios gamed out, and it's unlikely whatever major event that occurs falls under any of them. And that's *IF* that major financial event happens in our lifetime. We're coming up on 100 years since The Great Depression... and I doubt even then there was a whole heck of a lot of people who had gamed out things and came out unscathed.

There's probably a greater chance of your finances getting siphoned by a cybertheft than there is being right on a major financial meltdown "sometime in the future".

FDIC doesn;t have even a fraction of the funds to cover a fraction of the deposits it would need to in a major risk off event. It couldn't even cover SVB in 2023, hence why the FED had to pull off QE-lite AKA BTFP which paid banks MORE to loan treasuries to the FED than they themselves paid for borrowing. You think they pulled that out of their ass? The system was broke and official QE would have tanked everything.

Relying on FDIC is equivalent to relying on a degenerate gambler who continues to borrow money and bet it on red. Suggest doing a little learning on where FDIC gets its funds and what its current financial backdrop looks like.
Proposition Joe
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Everyone knows the system is broke.

It's been broke for decades.

But you said it yourself - when the FDIC couldn't cover funds, the FED stepped in and bailed everyone out.

And here we sit at all-time-highs. You've been screaming the house of cards is going to crumble for a while now Eventually you'll be right, but as pointed out a dozen times before -- in market timing, you're not right if you're early. There's been an enormous amount of gains left on the table the last 10 years by the more risk averse traders. That's part of what comes with being risk averse, and they can pat themselves on the back knowing they weren't reckless like all the others -- but they've absolutely left a ton of money on the table in doing so. It's good to be insured, but you don't want to pay to be over-insured.

Yes, this market will eventually come tumbling down. Yes, it's good to keep an eye on things. But ultimately trying to game out these financial scenarios where there's a major financial meltdown and you still come out unscathed using some advanced method (read: not FDIC, balance portfolio, cash on hand, etc...) is over-insuring yourself for an event that likely isn't going to play out like you think it will. And often it's just betting against the casino, because chances are the masses will get taken care of by the Fed by crook or hook. It will be a "well it was all going to come tumbling down, but....", just like it always is. There's a reason the Great Depression was almost 100 years ago, and it's not because our financial markets have been super healthy since then.

TLDR: Be smart, stay balanced, but don't worry too much that the casino isn't playing smart. The casino makes their own rules. And maybe lay off reading Zerohedge for a while.

Or invest in seeds.
A. G. Pennypacker
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AG
If the government is broke, how does the FDIC insure anything. Doesn't sound like a very sound plan to me.
Heineken-Ashi
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A. G. Pennypacker said:

If the government is broke, how does the FDIC insure anything. Doesn't sound like a very sound plan to me.

I never said they would. Read again.
Thunderstruck xx
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Heineken-Ashi said:

Proposition Joe said:

jamey said:

Proposition Joe said:

The whole idea of having the right currency in the right financial institution in case of a real market/financial collapse is akin to threading a needle.

If that is your concern, then you may as well spend the money now on doomsday prepping.


That actually makes me feel better about it. Just dont want to think, damn should have done X or Y.

Who knows, maybe ot doesn't happen in my lifetime but it seems more and more likely. I use to think it was more likely in kids or grandkids lifetime

I think there will definitely be opportunities missed on the upside -- where the guy who was invested in this specific crypto or whatever financial instrument may suddenly lap everyone and become mega-rich.

But if we enter a world where the dollar goes to **** at a hyper pace or major banks go under with no acquisitions or bailouts or safety nets, then having your money in Bank X instead of Bank Y (or buried out in your backyard, or in crypto, or wherever)... it's probably not going to matter.

That's not to say that "preparation" needle can't be threaded, and one should always have a game-plan... But anyone telling you they have thought out the 5-6 different ways things could go to **** and accounted for them is akin to a doomsday prepper. Sure they may be right, but odds are they are just wasting a lot of their time not enjoying life before it goes to *****

40% of banks went under in the Great Depression. Depositors lost everything. Those that were in banks that were safer still had their deposits.

And the threat of bails ins in the future is absolutely real. Instead of going under, and in lieu of bail outs where the taxpayer is fleeced, you become an involuntary shareholder of the bank, only able to withdraw your money once it stabilizes and is able to make up for its losses, likely years at best and decades at worst.

None of the red flags that came about in the banking sector in 2022 and 2023 have been cured. In fact, the majority of banks have been feeding shadow banks which dont have the same regulatory backdrop. Their CRE is still underwater, and their bonds purchased at historic low rates are still underwater. They've taken out additional leverage to try and make up the difference, and have refrained from loaning to the public, instead sending their trashiest assets to be parked at the FED for artificially high interest.

I strongly suggest doing some research. I posted some articles above. Or you can just continue to discount and argue with anyone who advises risk management.



Are major online banks like CapitalOne subject to the same risks as massive physical branch banks like Wells Fargo?
Heineken-Ashi
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Thunderstruck xx said:

Heineken-Ashi said:

Proposition Joe said:

jamey said:

Proposition Joe said:

The whole idea of having the right currency in the right financial institution in case of a real market/financial collapse is akin to threading a needle.

If that is your concern, then you may as well spend the money now on doomsday prepping.


That actually makes me feel better about it. Just dont want to think, damn should have done X or Y.

Who knows, maybe ot doesn't happen in my lifetime but it seems more and more likely. I use to think it was more likely in kids or grandkids lifetime

I think there will definitely be opportunities missed on the upside -- where the guy who was invested in this specific crypto or whatever financial instrument may suddenly lap everyone and become mega-rich.

But if we enter a world where the dollar goes to **** at a hyper pace or major banks go under with no acquisitions or bailouts or safety nets, then having your money in Bank X instead of Bank Y (or buried out in your backyard, or in crypto, or wherever)... it's probably not going to matter.

That's not to say that "preparation" needle can't be threaded, and one should always have a game-plan... But anyone telling you they have thought out the 5-6 different ways things could go to **** and accounted for them is akin to a doomsday prepper. Sure they may be right, but odds are they are just wasting a lot of their time not enjoying life before it goes to *****

40% of banks went under in the Great Depression. Depositors lost everything. Those that were in banks that were safer still had their deposits.

And the threat of bails ins in the future is absolutely real. Instead of going under, and in lieu of bail outs where the taxpayer is fleeced, you become an involuntary shareholder of the bank, only able to withdraw your money once it stabilizes and is able to make up for its losses, likely years at best and decades at worst.

None of the red flags that came about in the banking sector in 2022 and 2023 have been cured. In fact, the majority of banks have been feeding shadow banks which dont have the same regulatory backdrop. Their CRE is still underwater, and their bonds purchased at historic low rates are still underwater. They've taken out additional leverage to try and make up the difference, and have refrained from loaning to the public, instead sending their trashiest assets to be parked at the FED for artificially high interest.

I strongly suggest doing some research. I posted some articles above. Or you can just continue to discount and argue with anyone who advises risk management.



Are major online banks like CapitalOne subject to the same risks as massive physical branch banks like Wells Fargo?

Why wouldn't they be? And the answer would depend more on what their balance sheet (and off-balance sheet) looks like, not the structure of their business.
jamey
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AG
We've been talking to the banker at the local WFs a lot lately and every time he talks about transferring money, taking a document..etc, he refers to transferring to them, or their


Like he's not Wells Fargo. Throws me off every time.

I almost asked him if WF is trumping up bogus fees again at the HQs command so he's trying to distance himself from that
A. G. Pennypacker
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AG
Heineken-Ashi said:

A. G. Pennypacker said:

If the government is broke, how does the FDIC insure anything. Doesn't sound like a very sound plan to me.

I never said they would. Read again.

Ah - I think I should have responded to Proposition Joe's comment - not yours.
NormanEH
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I buy then turn and send it to offshore sportsbooks to take advantage of bonuses. I don't hold any substantial amount.
Proposition Joe
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A. G. Pennypacker said:

Heineken-Ashi said:

A. G. Pennypacker said:

If the government is broke, how does the FDIC insure anything. Doesn't sound like a very sound plan to me.

I never said they would. Read again.

Ah - I think I should have responded to Proposition Joe's comment - not yours.


My point is if the government is broke, the chances that you've invested in some safe haven crypto that is now accessible and redeemable for regular goods and services is insanely slim.

If you're trying to hedge against the government going broke and everyone's fiat currency being worthless, then you're better off investing in defendable land and ammo (and seeds, don't forget the seeds!).
 
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