Kitchen Remodel

855 Views | 8 Replies | Last: 3 days ago by Random Ag
agracer
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AG
anyone tried to tackle this on your own.

Not from a build everything perspective, but from a source cabinets to install yourself, sub out electrical and plumbing work and maybe some other items? Would have a local place do the countertops = they did our bathroom and just came out when the cabinets were finished and did a 3D scan an cut everything to fit perfectly into the space.

Got a rough estimate to redo our kitchen and it was about 2x what I thought it would be.

We are re-configuring our layout, but out basement is not finished so moving elec and plumbing is easy (obviously not free, but not hard either - no ceiling or flooring to remove and replace). Only new appliance is a larger cooktop and hood. Going to reuse the oven/microwave.
Caliber
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I did it 2 years ago. Studs up, including moving a wall. I did the electrical and plumbing but would have been easy enough to sub those out during the process.

Designed my build around standard cabinet sizes (leave gap space on the ends for filler strips for any out of square issues) so that I could get it done faster. Ordered quality wood cabinets pre built over custom.

I planned it pretty well so that I pretty much always had the range and sink available except for the weekend I replaced those cabinets. I was able to kinda do it piecemeal in a way. I used plywood as temp counters until i got it all to the point it was ready for permanent installs.

Counters were done by others. I did flooring and backsplash as well.

It will take longer than having it done turnkey, and likely longer than you plan, but it is doable if you are handy.

My warmup for this was a master bath remodel, which I think turned out was harder in many respects.

tgivaughn
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AG
Yikes
A one man shop - wait on me design/build guy would be my first call.
Hoping he also had a stain/paint finisher in the family.

Cabinets are the #1 wait & pay out the nose complaint when building a new or remodeling a house UGH
Good luck
UGH
Ours will have to rot off the walls & floor, just sayin'
Deciphering tools below = Why I Draw pictures for a living
http://pages.suddenlink.net/tgivaughn/
AEP Ag
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I have gradually remodeled my entire 1970's house this way. It definitely takes MUCH longer if you do it yourself but I have found it to be significantly cheaper. My dad was an electrician ,my FIL is a handyman and this is my third house to DIY so I have advantages. But there is so much about remodeling that can absolutely be done by the homeowner.

I have built up a networks of subcontractors that know my craziness and as long as I am willing to wait for an off day they will come do partial installs for me. So I had to wait on my plumber for two weeks but he ran PEX and new drain lines for 800 sq fr for around $300 total (I had the supplies already )

Before I started I turned our guest room into an almost full kitchen. Hot pot, microwave, countertop stove. The guest bathroom was the sink. It wasn't great but my wife tolerated it for the two FULL months it took me.

I would never attempt to build my own house but if you have a knack for craftsmanship and your family has the patience it can be very rewarding. But after a long day at work you better be excited to then work 3-5 hours in the evening on your remodel or it will never get done.

One other advantage of DIY is that I can control the waste/dust. I always set up plastic and completely air seal the remodel space with exhaust to the outside and giant air filter in the space. This has allowed us to live in the houses without any issues during remodel. But no contractor is going to make that level of dust detail effort without big $$.

It isn't as easy as YouTube makes it look but if you have the persistence and time it can be done.
Caliber
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AEP Ag said:

I would never attempt to build my own house but if you have a knack for craftsmanship and your family has the patience it can be very rewarding. But after a long day at work you better be excited to then work 3-5 hours in the evening on your remodel or it will never get done.

This is definitely a big one. You need to have the mindset that you need to get in their everyday and do SOMETHING at least, and usually you'll find yourself keep going after starting.

The biggest thing that helped me was to plan out a complete task list, breaking things down into the smallest reasonable task level increments. Then make sure you put in what has prerequisites and what can be done at any time. Having a defined list with small tasks makes it easy to know what needs to be done (and what you might need to buy!) instead of saying something would be too big to start in an evening vs weekend. That list also helps show progress so you don't think you're not getting anywhere.

The list/plan allows you to think about everything you're doing and catch things you might not think about immediately. Put in the questions that you might not be able to answer until things get torn out so that you remember to check. Take notes and update as you go. Having a list of to-do's that you don't have to wait around for can be a huge thing while waiting on a sub to come and do something else.


drummer0415
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I can provide some insight on cost, as I have literally been building my own kitchen myself over an extended period of time (not gonna say how long but longer than most people would be ok with). And I don't mean GC it myself, I mean literally doing all of the work myself.

Demo down everything down to studs

Relocate and/or add plumbing and electrical as needed. This included adding a gas line for range, exhaust duct for vent hood, moving water lines for fridge, all new water lines at sink, adding counter height outlets everywhere, adding electrical in upper cabinets for under cabinet lighting, etc.

Rebuild walls including cement backer board as needed for backsplash stone/tile

Add dimmable LED recessed lighting over entire kitchen

Build, paint, and install all of my own cabinetry. Baltic birch ply for cabinet boxes, solid maple drawers with Blum soft close undermount sliders, spice rack pullouts, Sherwin Williams Emerald enamel paint. Upper cabinets go all the to the ceiling, etc. Very nice stuff. No expense spared here.

Install kitchen sink, faucet, disposal, all undersink plumbing, etc.

Install under cabinet lighting

Install Mable stacked stone/ledger stone and marble tile backsplash on two walls (one wall has upper cabinets so the stone stops there, one wall it goes all the way up to the ceiling)

Caulk in cabinets and countertops, paint walls and trim wherever as needed, etc.

Literally all the work myself, except for one thing. The only scope of work in the entire kitchen that I didn't personally do was fabricate and install the granite countertops. We went to a yard, picked the exact slabs we wanted, then paid a fabricator to fabricate and install them.

The reason I'm listing all this out and emphasizing the fact that I did it all myself is not to brag at all. It's been a very long process and most people would not be happy with how long this has taken me. It's to make the following point below about how much these types of projects cost.


I've been keeping a very detailed spreadsheet of costs, broken down by category. My total cost so far, with me doing literally all of the work, including building the cabinets which is by far the biggest expense of any kitchen, I'm right at $23.5k, and I still have a little bit of work left to do. I'm estimating/expecting that I will finish up right at $25k. And because appliances can wildly impact the cost of a kitchen renovation, I will clarify that number only includes the new stove/range, and the vent hood that goes above it. That's it. We reused all other appliances in the kitchen.

So I say all that to say this. If it cost me ~$25k to renovate and build an entire kitchen and not even include all new appliances, Imagine how much it costs to pay other people to do it. If one were to tackle my same project by being the GC themselves, purchase pre made cabinets, pay subs to do the work, etc, I can still easily see it being 2x my cost, or around ~$50k. If one were to pay a GC for a turnkey finished project, I would imagine it would come in closer to 3x my cost.

Again, I'm not saying any of this to brag, I'm just trying to say most people just don't realize how much this stuff costs, or they just think everything should cost pre covid prices. Even with my project as a case study and self performing the most amount of work possible, it's still VERY EXPENSIVE.





drummer0415
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AEP Ag said:

I have gradually remodeled my entire 1970's house this way. It definitely takes MUCH longer if you do it yourself but I have found it to be significantly cheaper. My dad was an electrician ,my FIL is a handyman and this is my third house to DIY so I have advantages. But there is so much about remodeling that can absolutely be done by the homeowner.

I have built up a networks of subcontractors that know my craziness and as long as I am willing to wait for an off day they will come do partial installs for me. So I had to wait on my plumber for two weeks but he ran PEX and new drain lines for 800 sq fr for around $300 total (I had the supplies already )

Before I started I turned our guest room into an almost full kitchen. Hot pot, microwave, countertop stove. The guest bathroom was the sink. It wasn't great but my wife tolerated it for the two FULL months it took me.

I would never attempt to build my own house but if you have a knack for craftsmanship and your family has the patience it can be very rewarding. But after a long day at work you better be excited to then work 3-5 hours in the evening on your remodel or it will never get done.

One other advantage of DIY is that I can control the waste/dust. I always set up plastic and completely air seal the remodel space with exhaust to the outside and giant air filter in the space. This has allowed us to live in the houses without any issues during remodel. But no contractor is going to make that level of dust detail effort without big $$.

It isn't as easy as YouTube makes it look but if you have the persistence and time it can be done.


I will follow up my post above by saying this post is a very good take/input on a project like this, especially the part I bolded. It can and will be absolute grind. It just feels like there's a cloud over your head all the time.

I'm almost done with my project, so I'm seeing light at the end of the tunnel, but it's been a long road with some not fun times.
agracer
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AG
Thanks for the replies.

I am pretty handy and do almost all house stuff myself. Wife was all "no, we need a professional!!!", then she saw the cost and was all, "can son #3 help you do this?"

My middle son actually has a BS in Architectural Science - Woodworking...basically a BS in woodshop! He builds all kinds of stuff for his mom and helped me build cabinets for the garage. He said he's help me, but it would be limited to weekends. He even framed houses as a summer job while in college. He does now have some of my tools (Track Saw, Table Saw, miter saw).

Demo - We can do that. I've considered relocating some of the cabinets to the basement, but the layout really doesn't work great so those might go to charity (I need to find it, but in our church bulletin there was an advert for a charity that will come take your cabinets to re-purpose them - would be a good way to avoid a dumpster). Habitat for Humanity will also do this. I could get all the elec/plumbing out of the way and let them remove and take it out.

Cabinets - would for sure have a shop do the layout and assemble those and I would install with my son. Would be easier than trying to build myself.

Plumbing - would talk to guy I've used in the past. I can do simple stuff, but would prefer a pro relocate the gas lines and hot/cold water lines. He could do in a few hours what what would take me forever, and mine might leak!

Electrical - I can do that. The wires all come from the exposed basement ceiling so moving that around would be pretty easy.

Tile Backsplash - I can also do that.

Vent hood - never done one of these, I'd have to do some research to see how it would all work, but there is a clear path to the outside from where I'm going to place the new cooktop. Old one is on a island and downdraft.

Wood Floor - kitchen has a wood floor and I've confirmed it extends under all existing cabinets. We are reconfiguring the kitchen layout so those would have to be sanded and finished where they old unfinished floors would now be exposed. I used a good place in the past to extend my kitchen floors into the front room and they did a great job. I could combine the floor re-finish with extending the wood floors into the dining room.

I can use the grill to cook most stuff and a microwave. The laundry room is getting re-done first to make room for a fridge and a larger sink. Can also put the existing stove in the basement (I have a spare 220 down there) if it is necessary.

Work Time - I actually have Friday's off and can use those days to work and Saturday/Sunday when my son can help me. Usually have 2-3 evenings a week free (I ref. soccer 2x a week). I also have 40+ hours of PTO to burn (that includes what I already have scheduled) before the end of the year so when major stuff needs to happen I have time available.

Also, good tip about having a "PLAN". So write everything down, process, schedule, etc. or I'd just fall behind and be constantly running to the store to buy stuff and waste more time. Sort of a real task list on what needs to be done when in order for the next task to get done. Also, would help with planning countertop install, sinks, purchase of appliances (could wait for sales and jump on good deals if it works out), scheduling the plumber, etc.
Random Ag
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We did this 3 years ago. Spent approximately $30k and got a $100k kitchen. My husband is extremely handy.
- Removed non load bearing wall, paid for engineers to confirm it wasn't load bearing
- Demo did ourselves including and dumpster rental
- Paid pro to remove asbestos in the floor
- Minor plumbing updates including removing a baseboard heating did ourselves
- Electrical did ourselves
- Minor HVAC rerouting did ourselves
- Paid kitchen designer (not decorator) for a cabinet layout design (this was $ welllllll spent). Husband built cabinets, all oak, and I stained and sealed
- Paid (splurged) for counters
- Installed new subfloor and hardwood to match the rest of the house
- New drywall and insulation, plus backsplash tile, did ourselves
- vent for range hood and hood install
- Medium end appliances including microwave drawer

It took ~6 months start to finish. We put the stove in the garage and put the microwave and fridge in the dining area. Used the grill a fair amount. Washed dishes in basement laundry sink. Stored nearly all the kitchen crap. We had a 2 year old at the time and both worked long hour jobs but spent most off hours on the kitchen.
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