Project Marvel

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Burdizzo
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11:04a, 11/21/24
AG
Watching the city council presentation on this proposed sports and entertainment district downtown. It is already pissing me off.

First thing - they just expanded the convention center ten years ago, and they are complaining that it is too small. Said they had several conventions turn us down because of small size. They don't mention that the current mayor publicly turned down the republican convention.

I am sure they will bring up other things.

Land bridge over IH 37 looks like a huge boondoggle
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ReelAg6
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11:08a, 11/21/24
Link for details of the plans-

https://www.foxsanantonio.com/news/local/gallery/proposed-downtown-sports-and-entertainment-district-presented-to-san-antonio-city-council-spurs-alamodome-visitors-tourism-buildings-construction?photo=4

Have they discussed how they're going to fund it?

The Dome has turned a profit the past couple of years, which is rare for an arena of that size. The multi-family/hotel development will likely be a PPP or a ground lease from the city, so that should be a 100% go.
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Burdizzo
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11:18a, 11/21/24
AG
She just pulled up the slide and said rhetorically, "How do we fund this? We don't know yet."

She had a really long list of options.

Great.
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Burdizzo
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11:20a, 11/21/24
AG
Repurposing the old federal courthouse to a 5000 seat concert arena.

I guess Tobin is too passe
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Burdizzo
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11:25a, 11/21/24
AG
Talking major renovation the the Alamodome, but don't give specifics. Mainly more suites.

The video showed open roof.

No mention NFL when talking about the Alamodome

Also no mention that UTSA football would like a stadium on campus
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ReelAg6
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In reply to Burdizzo • 11:51a, 11/21/24
Burdizzo said:
Repurposing the old federal courthouse to a 5000 seat concert arena.

I guess Tobin is too passe
Although I'm in favor of the new arena (which won't be popular on here), I had the same thought. Tobin Center maxes out at 3,000 or so, but still. Not needed.

I also saw mixed use development on the Dome's parking lots, which is also stupid. If anything, build parking garages on two of those lots.
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Burdizzo
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12:05p, 11/21/24
AG
A new Spurs arena is probably the least of my concerns with this plan. IMO, the the Alamodome was too ambitious a project, which set in motion the Spurs moving out of downtown. The Spurs should be downtown, but it frustrating the roundabout way and the amount of money that has been wasted on them.

The city has a lot on its plate right now between the Missions ballpark and now this grandiose plan. I kind of appreciate the vision, but I have little faith this towns leadership won't foul it up. This is also a very long term plan. A couple of election cycles could change this significantly.

And don't be deceived. The taxpayer burden won't be insignificant. Lori Houston said the only thing they are looking to find is the "infrastructure" (roads and drainage and parks). That stuff isn't cheap. Never mind all the utility work that SAWS and CPS will have to replace, upgrade, or move for these projects. Some of that will be recovered from the development, but most of it will not.
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p_bubel
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12:44p, 11/21/24
The city got ambitious for once.
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Burdizzo
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In reply to p_bubel • 12:54p, 11/21/24
AG
p_bubel said:
The city got ambitious for once.


It is ambitious because it is big. However, I don't consider it very visionary. It looks pretty, but all it really does it creates more jobs for housekeepers, waitstaff, and part time jobs for ushers. A vision would be something like, "We are going to be the cyber security center for the hemisphere" or "We want to be the North American nerve center for private space operations."
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1939
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In reply to Burdizzo • 4:55p, 12/10/24
AG
Burdizzo said:
p_bubel said:
The city got ambitious for once.


It is ambitious because it is big. However, I don't consider it very visionary. It looks pretty, but all it really does it creates more jobs for housekeepers, waitstaff, and part time jobs for ushers. A vision would be something like, "We are going to be the cyber security center for the hemisphere" or "We want to be the North American nerve center for private space operations."
Every city wants that, the new airport terminal will be a positive for economic growth, doing things like this will help to draw businesses to town or keep growing companies from leaving.
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MookieBlaylock
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8:24p, 12/10/24
AG
Wouldn't it be cheaper to make a tunnel than a land bridge
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Burdizzo
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In reply to MookieBlaylock • 12:23p, 12/11/24
AG
MookieBlaylock said:
Wouldn't it be cheaper to make a tunnel than a land bridge


With a land bridge, every driver on IH-37 gets to see "Ron Nirenberg Mayor Of This GD City Overpass" every time they drive by. With a pedestrian tunnel, not so much
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cav14
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In reply to Burdizzo • 3:08p, 12/23/24
Burdizzo said:
First thing - they just expanded the convention center ten years ago, and they are complaining that it is too small. Said they had several conventions turn us down because of small size. They don't mention that the current mayor publicly turned down the republican convention.
You do realize that it can still be true for them to expand the convention center but still be turned down by some conventions because of size? The Henry B Gonzales convention center is not even in the top 20 largest convention centers in the US so of course the bigger conventions will automatically consider the other 20 locations over San Antonio just because of size.
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cav14
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In reply to MookieBlaylock • 3:15p, 12/23/24
MookieBlaylock said:
Wouldn't it be cheaper to make a tunnel than a land bridge
Don't know if it's cheaper to bore tunnels into limestone or not, but the main purpose of the land bridge is to not only physically connect the Alamodome area to the rest of downtown, but to also "socially" bridge the two together by providing a green park space that locals and tourist can gather. Austin trying to do the same exact thing with their Cap-n-Stitch project over I-35. They all want it to end up like Klyde Warren Park in Dallas.
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LCE
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3:48p, 12/24/24
AG
Speaking of conventions. Buddy in charge of booking conventions at JW said biggest hurdle is the airport.
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Tony Franklins Other Shoe
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In reply to MookieBlaylock • 5:09p, 12/30/24
AG
MookieBlaylock said:
Wouldn't it be cheaper to make a tunnel than a land bridge
Limestone in that area is a lot deeper than the tunnel would need to be. But there would be more of that nasty Alamo Ironworks dirt that will need to be disposed of in random locations around town like it was done during construction.

Person Not Capable of Pregnancy
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Burdizzo
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6:09p, 12/30/24
AG
TxDOT will probably be more cooperative crossing that ROW with a pedestrian land bridge than a pedestrian tunnel. Just my experience dealing with them.
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11:18p, 1/15/25
AG
Spurs will get what they want and it will get done.
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cav14
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3:52p, 7/25/25
Spurs Sports and Entertainment just committed to over $1 billion towards Project Marvel.

  • $500 million towards the new Arena
  • $500 million towards adjacent downtown development (ie. Convention center expansion, Alamodome upgrades, Land Bridge infrastructure)
  • $60 million in community incentives
https://www.scribd.com/document/892940357/Letter-from-Spurs-Chairman-and-Managing-Partner-Peter-J-Holt
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Burdizzo
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4:38p, 7/25/25
AG
If the Spurs are good for $1B I kind of wonder why the city is paying for any of it.

Also, what is a "community incentive"?
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cav14
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In reply to Burdizzo • 9:47a, 7/28/25
Burdizzo said:
If the Spurs are good for $1B I kind of wonder why the city is paying for any of it.

Also, what is a "community incentive"?

Because the new arena itself is projected to cost between $1 billion to $1.5 billion alone. All the other items associated with Project Marvel (expanded convention center, Alamodome upgrades, land bridge park, etc.) will take this entire project to at least a few billion dollars. $1 billion (of which $500 million will go towards the Arena) is still a significant investment from the Spurs that most other major sports teams would not do, but it's still obviously not enough to pay for the entire project.

The community incentives are listed in the linked letter. Copied and pasted:

  • Allocate 30% of the arena and district construction contracts to locally-owned San Antonio companies
  • On Spurs game days, SS&E would underwrite VIA Park & Ride for up to 2000 single game primary ticket buyers
  • SS&E will make available 500 tickets for every Spurs home game at $25 or less
  • SS&E proposes to underwrite a new policy that will target early childhood education and child care challenges in the community.
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Obi Wan Ginobili
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9:10a, 7/30/25
Now that the Spurs have put their money on the line, what will people complain about next?

HEB, the Spurs, tacos. We are so spoiled in San Antonio.
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Burdizzo
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10:49a, 7/30/25
AG
Meh, in spite of the success, I never considered the Spurs (or any pro sports team) that much of an amenity. Call me a grumpy old Aggie. After years of the 12th Man Foundation taking my donations and delivering mediocrity, I have kind of soured on subsidized sports. At least the Aggies on paper are giving college scholarships. Spurs tickets go to houses in the Dominion and making sure the Holt family stays in town. Maybe they should sell more bulldozers and excavators.
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Obi Wan Ginobili
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In reply to Burdizzo • 11:07a, 7/30/25
Burdizzo said:
Meh, in spite of the success, I never considered the Spurs (or any pro sports team) that much of an amenity. Call me a grumpy old Aggie. After years of the 12th Man Foundation taking my donations and delivering mediocrity, I have kind of soured on subsidized sports. At least the Aggies on paper are giving college scholarships. Spurs tickets go to houses in the Dominion and making sure the Holt family stays in town. Maybe they should sell more bulldozers and excavators.


This is some incredibly difficult logic to get my head around.


" Call me a grumpy old Aggie. After years of the 12th Man Foundation taking my donations and delivering mediocrity, I have kind of soured on subsidized sports."

The Spurs took our money and delivered 5 rings. I don't get what you're saying.


" At least the Aggies on paper are giving college scholarships"

Spurs Impact (formerly Silver and Black Give Back) helps the community and provides scholarships as well.


" Spurs tickets go to houses in the Dominion and making sure the Holt family stays in town."

The Spurs gifted/donated nearly 50,000 tickets last season alone.....


" Maybe they should sell more bulldozers and excavators."

You good, bro?


" Meh, in spite of the success, I never considered the Spurs (or any pro sports team) that much of an amenity."








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Burdizzo
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2:30p, 7/30/25
AG
Where is my Spurs Ring or Trophy?

How much time do those trophies spend in the Courthouse or City Hall? Last one I went out of town, no one asked to see any of my five NBA Championship rings.

Who really benefits from the tax money that subsidizes the Spurs?


I feel like Spurs fanboys are like real estate agents trying to sell me a house with a pool when what I really want is a house in a safe neighborhood and a working air conditioner.
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Hank the Grifter
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In reply to Burdizzo • 6:03p, 7/30/25
Burdizzo said:
TxDOT will probably be more cooperative crossing that ROW with a pedestrian land bridge than a pedestrian tunnel. Just my experience dealing with them.


TXDOT hates the idea.
And I'm glad they do.
I don't want a dime of taxpayer money to pay for this.
Let the Spurs go to Austin.
Sick of being held hostage.
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Aquin
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2:31p, 7/31/25
AG
Before we blindly follow our city leaders off into the weeds for the benefit of the Spurs, just what protections have they secured to make certain that the Spurs remain here for the useful life of the facility. They are putting up some of the funds but another city could cover that to get the team. Verbal promises are a nulity
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loveaTm
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2:08p, 8/1/25
AG
I was told the Spurs refuse to guarantee they'll stay in SA which is a big red flag for me, if true. Otherwise I am torn. I like the idea of getting a big complex downtown where it should have been put last time but I think the city needs to have other priorities. We don't have enough corporations with presence here any more and they are needed for this city to flourish. I don't see Mayor Gina giving a crap about that.
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