Just don't run across them often. What do you recommend?

I've had a couple that a friend of mine has brought back. They're nothing fancy; just simple easy drinkers.

I find the subject of orange wines fascinating, but haven't sought out any. Fascinating because Georgia is thought to be where wine originated thousands of years ago and Georgia is known for it's orange wines.

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Georgia is considered the birthplace of orange wine, also known as amber wine, and is deeply rooted in the country's winemaking traditions. These wines are made by fermenting white grapes with their skins, seeds, and stems, similar to how red wine is made, resulting in a unique orange or amber hue and complex flavors. Georgia's traditional winemaking method involves using large, earthenware vessels called qvevri, which are buried underground, enhancing the wine's character and complexity.

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The earliest evidence of winemaking points to the, specifically Georgia and Armenia, with archaeological findings suggesting winemaking dating back as far as 8,000 years ago.

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I enjoy orange wines. We usually order one if it's available and we can't agree on red or white. In Houston, Nancy's Hustle and Tiny Champions usually have one or two on the list. IIRC, Squable usually has one or two on their list as well.

jh0400 said:

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I enjoy orange wines. We usually order one if it's available and we can't agree on red or white. In Houston, Nancy's Hustle and Tiny Champions usually have one or two on the list. IIRC, Squable usually has one or two on their list as well.

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I'm also a fan, usually, of orange offerings from Friuli or Slovenia where that's been a style. Had some good ones from random France and CA producers, too.

The thing about orange wines is that
(1) they are rarely overly expensive
(2) they come from all over - California, Italy, Eastern Europe what have you
(3) the name is vague so often times an orange wine is orange in color but not that true skin contact / earthy / more depth taste. Orange wines to me are the skin contact wines - often affiliated with more natural wine making.

As someone said above it can be a nice go between for a red and a white. And they are just drinkable / enjoyable / less filling on a tragically hot Texas summer day.

Paolo Bea Umbria Bianco 'Santa Chiara' was as good as it gets. Really nice flavor profile and complexity,



This Le Cuvier out of Paso is ideal as well.



The Rebula (from Slovenia) above was great.


I am by no means an orange wine expert I have just stumbled upon a few that provided a great experience. So maybe I look for them more than most people.


meanwhile, AI says

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[color=#0a0a0a][size=3][font="Google Sans", Roboto, Arial, sans-serif]"Orange skin contact wine" refers to a style of wine, not one made from oranges, that gets its color and unique characteristics from extended contact with white grape skins during fermentation. [/font][/size][/color]
[color=#0a0a0a][size=3][font="Google Sans", Roboto, Arial, sans-serif]Here's a breakdown of what that means:[/font][/size][/color]

• [color=#0a0a0a][size=3][font="Google Sans", Roboto, Arial, sans-serif]Production Process: White wine grapes are crushed and then left to macerate (soak) with their skins and seeds in the juice during fermentation, . This contrasts with traditional white wine production where the skins are removed before fermentation to prevent the juice from picking up color and tannins. The skin contact can last from a few days to several months, depending on the desired outcome.[/font][/size][/color]
• [color=#0a0a0a][size=3][font="Google Sans", Roboto, Arial, sans-serif]Color and Flavor: The maceration process extracts pigments and tannins from the skins, resulting in a wine with an orange or amber hue. These wines are known for their robust and complex flavor profiles, often described as having notes of dried fruits (apricot, peach, orange peel), nuts (hazelnut, almond), honey, herbs, and even a slight oxidative quality akin to sherry. They are typically dry and possess a tannic structure reminiscent of red wines, along with a distinctive acidity.[/font][/size][/color]
• [color=#0a0a0a][size=3][font="Google Sans", Roboto, Arial, sans-serif]Relationship to Natural Wine: Orange wines are often associated with the natural wine movement, as the tannins extracted from the skins can act as natural preservatives, potentially reducing the need for added sulfites. However, it's important to note that not all orange wines are natural wines, nor are all natural wines orange.[/font][/size][/color]
• [color=#0a0a0a][size=3][font="Google Sans", Roboto, Arial, sans-serif]Origins and Resurgence: This winemaking technique dates back thousands of years, with roots in regions like Georgia (the country, not the U.S. state) and parts of Eastern Europe. The practice saw a revival in the early 21st century, spearheaded by winemakers in Friuli-Venezia Giulia, Italy, and Slovenia, [/font][/size][/color]
• [color=#0a0a0a][size=3][font="Google Sans", Roboto, Arial, sans-serif]Serving and Pairing: Orange wines are versatile in food pairings due to their robust flavors and tannic structure, They pair well with a wide range of dishes, including bold, spicy, and fermented foods like kimchi or curry, cheeses, charcuterie, hearty vegetables, and grilled meats and fish. They are generally served slightly chilled, between 55-60 degrees Fahrenheit. [/font][/size][/color]

[color=#0a0a0a][size=3][font="Google Sans", Roboto, Arial, sans-serif]In essence, orange skin contact wine offers a unique and complex experience for wine enthusiasts, bridging the gap between traditional white and red wines with its distinctive color, flavor, and texture[/font][/size][/color]

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2023 Rivers-Marie Cabernet Sauvignon - Napa
I just realized in looking at the vineyard composition of this wine, it is 100% St Helena appellation. I feel like we keep doing this, the 2021 Napa for instance was 100% Oakville. Ultimately, it's a good sign, always chasing the best appellations every vintage. St Helena in 2023 was particularly strong given the abundant spring rains and cool growing conditions throughout the warmest parts of the summer. This edition is approximately 50% Panek, 20%
Vidovich Lane and 30% Dean York, a new western St Helena site that fell into our laps at the last minute. More due to size than quality, we were able to be very selective in how we harvested blocks in 2023. All 4 Panek blocks saw their own tanks and we were able to cut VLV into two pieces based on vigor. Only the absolute top lots made the single vineyard cut but with quality near an all-time high, that selection became more subjective than objective at times. For the Napa wine, the default criteria centered around drinkability, freshness and
a slightly less structured build. There's plenty of power here but there's also a balancing red fruited note. The abundant fruit of the year is joined by savory notes of tobacco, sandalwood and creosote. Acidity provides a nice lightness to the palate. This as the starter wine is a great indicator for just how great 2023 turned out to be.

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2023 Rivers-Marie Calistoga Cabernet Sauvignon - Rivers-Marie
2023 Rivers-Marie Calistoga Cabernet Sauvignon
The 2023 Calistoga is roughly 50% Larkmead and 50% Peterson Family Vineyard, the home ranch for Switchback Ridge Winery. This will be our last year with Larkmead after a very successful 12 year run as a grape buyer. You'll start to hear some consistent themes in these notes as they progress. The coolness of the vintage allowed us to produce our most successful Calistoga bottling since 2019. Usually, we'd be looking to pick these sites the first half of September after battling heat through most of the growing season. Instead, Peterson was picked October 7th and Larkmead October 24th. The extended hangtime has created a wine that's more black/purple fruited than years past but one that still contains all the herbal notes of past Calistoga bottlings. Aromas of walnut husk, sage and grilled bread hit first followed by more dried herbs, blackcurrants and tobacco. Crushed rocks and purple flowers come up at the end framed by the structure of the vintage. This may be our last Calistoga bottling for the foreseeable future, but it feels like a great way to go out.

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2023 Rivers-Marie Panek Vineyard Cabernet Sauvignon - Rivers-Marie
2023 Rivers-Marie Panek Vineyard Cabernet Sauvignon
It's nice to welcome our old friend back after a one year hiatus. Panek has reemerged after a difficult 2022 that saw all blocks declassified to our Napa bottling. It turns out to be a great year for a comeback. Panek always fares best in more structured years, adding a layer of complexity to the wine that the soil and climate in northern St Helena rarely contributes. The general leaning for this site has always been a mix of red and black fruits, brown sugar, espresso roast and blackcurrants but here there's a textured mid-palate that comes up through the tannin of the vintage adding dimension and more herbal character. This may also be a vine age thing now that these blocks are nearing their 20 year mark. Scorched earth, charcoal, white flowers and burnt sage fill up the aromatics before the generosity of the area kicks in giving the wine a decadent turn. The 2023 vintage stamp comes on strong at the end curtailing the youthful exuberance of the wine and adding a weightier note to the finish. It's good to see this wine back in the fold and we have no doubt it will take its place among the greatest Panek bottlings to date.

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2023 Rivers-Marie Vidovich Lane Vineyard Cabernet Sauvignon - Rivers-Marie
2023 Rivers-Marie Vidovich Lane Vineyard Cabernet Sauvignon

Our first vintage of VLV, the 2021, taught us quite a bit about this site. We were happy with the effort, but we quickly realized we could do better. Being a stone's throw from Dr Crane, there was no reason this shouldn't be one of the stars of our portfolio every year. What
we did is obvious now in hindsight, we spent more time in the vineyard. As we watched we saw pockets that struggled, pockets that were overly vigorous and thankfully, a lot in between. Any vine not in balance we flagged for inclusion in our Napa bottling. The differences across the board were surprising given this is only a 2-acre site. At final count, we isolated about 25% of the vineyard for a second pick, putting our arms around only the best
sections for the VLV bottling. Because of this, the 2023 reminds me far more of the wines from Dr Crane than the 2021. This is pure black fruit driven with little streaks of crushed rock and liquid mineral shot through. There's a crystalline quality that feels overly delicate in something so intense but it's part of what balances the wine and gives it extra dimension. Where the 2021 had some herbal edges, this leads with pure fruit complemented by iron,
cassis, grilled bread and violets. The addition of VLV a couple years ago perfectly encapsulates what we search for in our Cabernet program, small jewels that represent the best of what Napa Valley has to offer in only its finest appellations.

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2023 Rivers-Marie M-Bar Ranch Cabernet Sauvignon - Rivers-Marie
2023 Rivers-Marie M-Bar Ranch Cabernet Sauvignon
I've been working with this site since Round Pond purchased it over 10 years ago. It is now fully replanted and more importantly, mature, in my opinion. Everything along the western bench of Oakville is prized ground and this is along the elite of that small group. The question comes up often about the best dirt in Napa and I've heard M-Bar mentioned in a few of these conversations. Now that we have our arms around the vineyard, I'm starting to see why. It has the classic balance between power and elegance that sets sites like To Kalon apart from the rest of the valley. There are all the savory elements you love in Cabernet Sauvignon combined with the fruit unique to the middle of Napa Valley. Tobacco, smoke, graphite and cassis layer the front part of the palate giving way to purple/black fruits with hints of iron and black olives. This is already so complex it's hard to imagine how much better it will get with age. Site first has always been our motto and the greatness of this wine certainly speaks to the greatness of the dirt in which it was raised.

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2023 Rivers-Marie Oakville Terraces Cabernet Sauvignon - Rivers-Marie
2023 Rivers-Marie Oakville Terraces Cabernet Sauvignon
Now turning to our two Oakville bottlings, the importance of the vintage is even more prominent here. Being in the western hills means Oakville Terraces is exposed to pretty intense afternoon heat in the warmer years. That often forces our hand on pick decisions and sometimes even what blocks can make the single vineyard cut. We spend most of those years playing defense as the weather dictates every move we make at this site. Thankfully this was not the case in 2023. This vintage reminds me of the 2016 version of this wine. That year wasn't quite as cool as 2023, but it was just temperate enough to allow true ripeness. The nose covers the entire fruit spectrum veering from red to purple to black accented by varietal
and barrel notes of charcoal, smoke and sweet tobacco. The palate is dense and carries a near perfect balance between black/purple fruits, acidity and tannin. All the rock and mineral notes contribute a sense of coolness that keeps the wine fresh through the finish. Like all 2023s, especially from this part of the world, there's plenty of tannin but it's perfectly round and sweet fleshing out even more savory notes and pure black fruits.

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2023 Rivers-Marie Herb Lamb Vineyard Cabernet Sauvignon - Rivers-Marie
2023 Rivers-Marie Herb Lamb Vineyard Cabernet Sauvignon
This vineyard really doesn't need to be reintroduced but it's hard for us to express how elated we are to have it back in the fold. All the credit for this incredibly fast turnaround goes to vineyard owner, Jennifer Lamb. It was her passion for this site that restored it to its former glory so quickly. Replanted in its original footprint to the same clonal material, we really had no expectations when we harvested the first fruit in 2023. Herb Lamb has such a site
signature, we wondered if that would express itself in such young fruit. In fermenter and through the first few months of tasting, it really didn't. It was only at the 12 month mark that the wine darkened and the aromatics and palate notes began turning herbal leaning into bay leaf, dried mint, lead pencil shavings and sandalwood. This is always a taut, muscular wine and the 2023 is no exception benefitting from the natural structure of the vintage. There is fruit here but the intellectual interest of the complexity of both the nose and the palate is really the draw.

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Anybody else like Rivers Marie? I got this today. INtrigued but I am getting overstocked. But should be a good year and RM is reasonable value IMO. Thoughts?

On the subject of orange wine since I know there are some Aaron Pott fans on the thread. Have a bottle, haven't tried it yet…

https://www.perlissvineyards.com/product/detail/SNKSKN22SM750/

phxAg said:

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On the subject of orange wine since I know there are some Aaron Pott fans on the thread. Have a bottle, haven't tried it yet…

https://www.perlissvineyards.com/product/detail/SNKSKN22SM750/

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$95 for Sonoma semillon seems a little over the top. I don't think I've had a Pott rose or white, but I have enjoyed all the reds I've tried from his various projects.

Agree…but most things California wine are today

I bought a 3-pack of Perliss the Serpent a few years ago at an event they were pouring at. I have one left and enjoyed the first two quite a bit, but haven't bought anymore due to price as others have mentioned.

phxAg said:

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Agree…but most things California wine are today

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most things Napa are today.

Had a really good sub $20 orange wine from Stolpman last year, unfortunately they didn't produce it again in 2024.

Stolpman has been doing some funky wines lately. They did a carbonic wine, either syrah or grenache that I did not care for. I wish I could still get the La Cuadrilla. It's a wine block that is entirely managed by the vineyard crew from vine to bottle, and they all get a cut from the wine sales. It was an easy wine to drink, and went great with burgers, but my wine shop hasn't gotten it in a while.

Objective Aggie said:

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Anybody else like Rivers Marie? I got this today. INtrigued but I am getting overstocked. But should be a good year and RM is reasonable value IMO. Thoughts?

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I got a few bottles from this release. I'm pretty full but wanted the Panek and since Vidovich is near Dr. Crane, I got a bottle to try a side by side comparison someday. Always enjoyed the Oakville Terraces and the Napa bottlings. 2023 is pretty hyped up so why not! I'll cut back next year…

HTownAg98 said:

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Stolpman has been doing some funky wines lately. They did a carbonic wine, either syrah or grenache that I did not care for. I wish I could still get the La Cuadrilla. It's a wine block that is entirely managed by the vineyard crew from vine to bottle, and they all get a cut from the wine sales. It was an easy wine to drink, and went great with burgers, but my wine shop hasn't gotten it in a while.

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I'm pretty sure they are still distributing the La Cuadrilla. You are talking about the love ya bunches red, which is a carbonic sangiovese. It is their highest distributed wine. Unfortunately, they aren't putting as many SKUs into distribution, trying to focus on wine club sales and selling out of their tasting room in Los Olivos.

they did a killer rose of gamay/trousseau this year called 'vin gris' and a really neat unfiltered sav blanc. both made for early drinking. bought some when I was out there

It's been a while since I had it, but you're right that it is a carbonic sangiovese. When I had it, it was before they launched the Love You Bunches brand.

La cuadrilla is a favorite here too. I love with burgers or grilled chicken. It is always available at twin liquor on Texas in college station so stock up anytime you're up here for a game!

They make my favorite pinots

Aged champagne is my favorite. I wish I had discovered it sooner in my wine drinking career!

giant dog bed and both of them are lying on the floor. exact same experience at my house, lol

How was it? I have random's, the '09 and the '19. I have read the new vintages are much more open as opposed to older vintages, but just curious how the '01 was drinking in your opinion.

It was absolutely ready to drink and mature. Frankly, I would think it's about ready to start declining as there was a hint of brick to the wine. I'm sure it would go longer, just wouldn't be as good in 5yrs.

Weirdly enough I've got several vintages including 04', 03 & 95 in stock. This is a good excuse to drink the 95 and report hack.

QBCade said:

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It was absolutely ready to drink and mature. Frankly, I would think it's about ready to start declining as there was a hint of brick to the wine. I'm sure it would go longer, just wouldn't be as good in 5yrs.

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thanks for that.

PSA: It's looking like a Gary Farrell day on Last Bottle

Chipotlemonger said:

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PSA: It's looking like a Gary Farrell day on Last Bottle

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I just grabbed 3 of the Zin. I know nothing about the brand but my wife loves zin so I usually pick them up when they pop up on LB.