*** THE BEAR *** (Season 4)

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Max Power
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In reply to Troy91 • 9:20a, 6/30/25
AG
Troy91 said:
AJ02 said:
I guess I'm weird, bc I loved season 4. Yeah, it was introspective and dialogue heavy, but it all resonated deeply with me. The background and struggles of the various characters....it felt like the writer had lived my life for a lot of it. I was blown away by the little things that the writers picked up on. Stuff that probably didn't even register for most people who didn't experience a childhood like Carmey had. Like Lee when he was just about to say "you should go visit your mom", and he stopped just short. And Carmey later thanked him for not saying it. That hit deep for me.
You hit on something here. For those of us who watched the Feast of Seven Fishes and had childhood flashbacks, this show hits us in a very deep spot.

Growing up amidst the chaos, you just find something to focus on and some way to get praise outside of the home. Unfortunately, that also comes with a heavy dose of self destructive behavior.

Viewing the series through that lens, it is less about a restaurant and more about Carmine trying to build a family. Seeing success happen amidst the chaos is simply normal to him. He doesn't know calm or measured anything. Season 4 was more of that and it won't resonate with everyone as a result.
I watched it over the weekend and I really enjoyed season 4. Season 4 felt like fan service in a lot of ways but I needed some fan service TBH. I think the show is at it's best when it can balance stress and trauma with heart and humor. To me the show got a bit heavy on the stress and trauma and was just off balance, for my own personal enjoyment anyway.

I know for some people the wedding episode fell flat for a number of reasons and I actually really liked it. The thing that didn't work for me was casting Brie Larson as Francine, she does not fit with the cast and definitely not as a member of the Fak family. I thought the scene under the table was sweet, and this show needs moments like that to balance itself out. The more I think about it the more the scene with Carmy and Lee stays with me. When Lee reveals that he and Mikey eventually became friends it was clear that Carmy has a problem processing that. He couldn't process Mikey being able to bury the hatchet after what went down at Christmas, because he wouldn't be able to and he probably never forgave Lee for that argument with Mikey.

At first I really disliked the last episode. I couldn't put my finger on it but for me I couldn't make sense of Carmy doing what he did. I think his decision was ultimately related to the fact that he's not only been hiding from processing Mikey's death and he's basically been trying to recreate him in the restaurant with the people around him but he can't do it. He can't bring back Mikey regardless of how hard he works. He also doesn't need to do anything for Mikey, Mikey was already proud of him. He never came to terms with losing the person who kept him grounded to the earth. I still think the last episode needed work but at the same time Carmy is a mess so maybe it makes sense that the episode is messy.

I hope they do season 5. I think they can wrap this thing up nicely, I'm not ready to be done with this show.
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BQRyno
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In reply to Max Power • 10:05a, 6/30/25
AG
I'm with you on basically all of this. The other thought that I had about the last episode was how clearly his conversation with Nat had stuck with him. Her reaction to the news drove that home beautifully.
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Max Power
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In reply to BQRyno • 10:44a, 6/30/25
AG
100%, I also think going to see his mom played a part in it as well. He never thought he was going to get that apology from her. He experiences several interactions this season he did not expect, the culmination of those things is what leads him to his decision in the last episode.

I also really enjoyed Richie's arch this season. He figured out some things about himself too. Tons of inner conflict with the wedding but when you hear that the only family Tiffany has at the wedding is the Berzatto family it starts to fall into place. Regardless of how abrasive he is, he connects all these people. He does it at the restaurant as well, he's working to connect the patrons to the restaurant and vice versa, he actually cares about the things Carmy doesn't because he's off somewhere else in his own head. I think that realization is why it also makes sense that Syd wants his name on the partnership agreement, not just her and Natalie. Syd is able to do the food, Natalie is able to run the business, but Richie is equally important to what The Bear is.
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AJ02
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In reply to Max Power • 5:00p, 6/30/25
AG
Yes! You brought up another thought I had while watching this season. There were 3 different people that had admitted to Carmey that they often thought about him, and he seemed so surprised and blown away by it. Lee, his mom, and Richie. Every time one of them said they often thought about him, you could see it hit him and he was shocked. And I GET IT!! Living a life like Carmey did growing up, oftentimes you get to feeling this way. The feeling like you could leave and no one would even remember you. So to hear that they not only remembered/thought of him, but they also admired him....it wasn't something he thought he'd ever hear.

Heck, my husband will come back from visiting someone and tell me "so and so asked about you. Said they miss you." And I'm line "what?? No they didn't." I honestly have a hard time believing people would randomly think about me. It's something ingrained in you during childhood when you've grown up with a mom like Carmey had.
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AJ02
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In reply to Max Power • 5:01p, 6/30/25
AG
That's why Richie says he figured out the zen garden. He's not the rock, he's the sand that ties them all together.
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AJ02
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In reply to Max Power • 5:09p, 6/30/25
AG
Max Power said:
100%, I also think going to see his mom played a part in it as well. He never thought he was going to get that apology from her. He experiences several interactions this season he did not expect, the culmination of those things is what leads him to his decision in the last episode.

[/sp]


And also him not knowing if he can trust the apology. He wants it so desperately. He wants nothing more than to hear his mom say she's proud of him, and that she's sorry. But there's also a part of him that is hesitant to believe it. It's such a dilemma that all of us with BPD moms have. Wanting so badly to get love and approval, but knowing in the past that it has ALWAYS been conditional. So even as an adult you still want it badly but can't quite believe it.

Similar internal struggle with Tiff and what she's going through with her mom. Part of her wanting her mom to be at her wedding to show that Tiff means something to her. But the other part of her being so grateful she's not there for multiple reasons: a) the awkwardness and b) it allows others to see how truly awful your parent really is and they get an understanding of why you are cold-hearted towards your parent. So it's a way of alleviating the guilt you have for not really wanting your parent there and being okay with not having your mom in your life. But also, being incredibly lonely and wishing you had family, so being terrified to think she'd lose the Berzatto's. It sounds like Tiff had been through her own hell with her parents, but in a different way. TIFF's parents simply abandoned/discarded her, which is its own form of horrific abuse. Much more covert than the abuse Donna inflicted on her kids.
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fig96
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10:16a, 7/1/25
AG
Finished last night and agreed with the discussion around Richie. His realization about the zen garden was great, and Forks from s2 is still one of the best episodes of television in years. Watching someone who so desperately wanted to be something suddenly find purpose was incredible to see. I will also never forget "I wear suits now".

Also really loved seeing Marcus's journey, I really enjoy he and Luka's relationship and the phone call in ep 9 was great. Bringing Luka to The Bear was great as well, he's a very grounded presence in the kitchen relative to Carmy and has so many great little moments across the season.

Overall I really enjoyed this season, hoping for a s5 to follow the restaurant and Carmy's journey.
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Max Power
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In reply to AJ02 • 3:28p, 7/1/25
AG
AJ02 said:
Yes! You brought up another thought I had while watching this season. There were 3 different people that had admitted to Carmey that they often thought about him, and he seemed so surprised and blown away by it. Lee, his mom, and Richie. Every time one of them said they often thought about him, you could see it hit him and he was shocked. And I GET IT!! Living a life like Carmey did growing up, oftentimes you get to feeling this way. The feeling like you could leave and no one would even remember you. So to hear that they not only remembered/thought of him, but they also admired him....it wasn't something he thought he'd ever hear.

Heck, my husband will come back from visiting someone and tell me "so and so asked about you. Said they miss you." And I'm line "what?? No they didn't." I honestly have a hard time believing people would randomly think about me. It's something ingrained in you during childhood when you've grown up with a mom like Carmey had.
Damn, that's a really good point. I think a lot of people can draw from similar experiences. If you left home to go to college, even if it's not that far away, you chose to leave your family and friends. Even if you go back often, it honestly never feels the same ever again. I think there's a level of guilt we carry after decisions like that, it's almost like you need to feel forgiven when you have nothing to apologize for. Then after college if you establish a life only to leave again, maybe it's to start a family, it happens again. Even if no one has made you feel guilty, it's something you can put on yourself involuntarily. And if you do those things what do you need to accomplish to feel it was worth it, or even to validate it as the right decision?

During lunch yesterday I rewatched Season 3 Episode 1 - Tomorrow. If anyone has a half hour to spare I recommend rewatching that episode after finishing season 4. That's the one where a good portion of it is just instrumental music from Reznor & Ross with a bunch of scenes of Carmy at different points in his career and life. After finishing season 4 it hits a little bit different when you see it again.
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Southlake
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4:18p, 7/1/25
Just finished. Very good not awesome. I'm so familiar and like the characters so much that I don't need it to be awesome.

And now, Ritchie has bypassed Carmy as the most compelling character on the show.

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TCTTS
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4:55p, 7/1/25
AG
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Joan Wilder
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7:56p, 7/1/25
AG
I'll never understand how this show is categorized as a comedy. It's got comic elements but it's not a comedy.

This show is one of the best depictions of grief - how a loss devastates an individual coping with that loss, but also how it profoundly changes how families and friends relate to each other, without that person. The final few episodes of Ritchie, Sugar and Carmy finding their way back to each other, sharing their grief and saying the things that had gone un-said, were really beautiful.
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InternetFan02
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11:57p, 7/1/25
AG
Just finished and I loved it all the way through. Can't believe it's renewed for season 5 - this felt like the end of the original 3 season arc vision with season 3 being split in half and extended. Maybe they reset and set a new vision for season 5.

Season 1-2 is one of the greatest things ever on TV and season 3-4 felt like a prestige version of This is Us.

Felt like fan service like the end of Mad Men…but it's fine. I love it.
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TCTTS
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2:43a, 7/2/25
AG
Finally finished tonight as well.

I have to admit, through the first six episodes, I was really, really down on this season, at least compared to how great the show was at the height of its powers. It wasn't just that the plot wasn't moving forward, it was that every single emotion and plight was the EXACT same as it was last season. It was all just so damn repetitive and one-note, and when everyone is so damn mopey all the damn time I can only take so much of them all being stuck in the same gear, facing the exact same conundrums they were a season ago, while expressing the same, restrained thoughts/opinions over and over and over again.

And while the wedding episode was at least a nice change of pace, and certainly had its emotional highs, there was just something off about it as well. Not to mention, the Brie Larson stuff just did not work at all, while it was also the culmination of everyone treating her brother Neil like a literal five-year-old for episodes on end, and for the life I could not understand why. It went from a funny bit a couple seasons ago to just straight up weird this season, like he was actually mentally challenged, or it was a Big situation where a child was somehow stuck in a grown man's body or something.

All of that said, throughout those seven episodes, the filmmaking was never not phenomenal, the soundtrack was amazing as usual, and it was all still better than nearly everything else on TV. That, and the final three episodes were just spectacular. The finale, especially, was one of the most poignant, emotional, and emotionally satisfying finales I've ever seen. Just so damn good, and I'm not afraid to admit that I even teared up a few times.

It also confirmed for me that seasons three and four were definitely meant to be just one season initially, and that I wish they'd have stuck to that plan. All the right ingredients and arcs were there, but stretched over 20 episodes instead of 10 just wasn't the way to go. Or, it all would have played so much better as a super-sized, 12-14-episode season three.

Oh, well. At least we finally arrived at that incredible destination, and can at last move forward next season with a fresh new dynamic. Really looking forward to what will now surely be the last season.
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TCTTS
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3:15a, 7/2/25
AG
Some interesting thoughts/responses...

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FL_Ag1998
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In reply to TCTTS • 5:44a, 7/2/25
AG
This basically mirrors my exact thoughts. Obviously some on this thread really onnect with the depression, mania, etc. that's been (really) drawn out over the past couple of seasons, but for those of us who don't, it's been a real slog to get through.

Like you said, I'm so over the show writing Neil Fak like he's five years old and/or mentally deficient. I swear to God he wasn't that bad in the first season or 2, but then it became a cute little gimmicky crutch for them to rely on.

And the wedding episode didn't do it for me. It was just too on the nose cutesy. "Hey, wouldn't it be really funny and cute if we start out with the daughter underneath the table, and then the two dads climb under there with her, and then slowly one by one the whole f****** cast climbs underneath the table and has a really cute moment together! Hahaha, that'll be so cute!"

And the whole buildup of some big fight that drove a wedge between Natalie and Francie, only to have it basically completely blown off in that episode, where they patch it up in thirty seconds then it's all good?

And over the past two seasons they made Sydney a really annoying character, with her wishy washy indecisiveness over the decision to stay at the Bear.

Buuuuuut, I watched episode 8 last night and caught the smallest glimmer of what made Seasons 1 & 2 so good. I'm hoping the last two episodes pay off like you guys are saying they do.
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fig96
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In reply to TCTTS • 9:25a, 7/2/25
AG
I thought that then that he might have been the Food and Wine writer after Sugar's phone call and announcement. But it seems a little odd that they wouldn't have done a review after him obviously having a great experience.

As far as Neil, I get the annoyance but it's also funny that I find him very charming at times as an actor and rather annoying on YouTube.

And while I enjoyed this season a lot, I started watching Forks from s2 then kept going through the rest of the season and geez that is one of my favorite seasons of television in a long time.
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Cibalo
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7:31p, 7/8/25
Finally finished the season yesterday. Overall it was good but not great, though there were some parts that were fantastic.

I got tired of Syd stringing along the other chef just to dump him at the last second. The scenes with Jamie Lee and Bob O are great. It's like they come in and everything about the show is better. Then they fade away and the show goes back down a few notches.

The part with the side counter beef sandwich expanding seemed like a half way executed idea. Needed some more back story on why they were looking at it and brought in a consultant. Seemed like they were doing it behind Carms back in a way.

I think Richie and Sugar have become my favorite characters in the show. Their drive to make it all work both inside and outside the restaurant feels relatable.

I do wish there was more kitchen action as that was the hook for me in Seasons 1 and 2. At times it felt that the restaurant was just about pretty desserts and trying to make a pasta dish in 3 minutes.

Enough cliffhangers to fill out a season 5. Do they keep the Bear open and if so can they turn a meaningful profit? How does Marcus' award factor in. Where does Carm go? What is going on with the beef window?
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walton91
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10:42p, 7/8/25
I was thinking the other day that they may have Carm follow Olivia Colman's path. In S2 she told Richie how her first restaurant failed, how her ambition got the better of her. Then after opening Ever she was more centered, more connected to the restaurant, or something along those lines. Carm's ambition almost sunk the Bear with him insisting on changing the menu every day. I feel like we will see him open a new place where he loves cooking again. Maybe he will be the guy cooking for the new Beef chain
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Marsh
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5:11a, 7/9/25
AG
I think yall got most of the same points I did.

Very strange how everyone treats Neil. Like he is a mentally unstable 5 year old.

The "get everyone under the table" at the wedding was a bit forced.

I did like the transition between the first episode, where everything is the same it has always been (chaos and fighting), to the rest of the season, where several characters were actively changing. Most notably, Carmy giving up power in the kitchen and allowing Sydney to make decisions. Foreshadowing throughout the season that he isn't really needed in that kitchen.

I love that everyone looked at the length of the long episode this season and thought, "oh this is going to be like the feast of fishes dinner" just at a wedding. A good twist on our expectations that it was quite wholesome and nice, really highlighting that there has been character growth this season.

Carmy and his mom's conversation really got me. As someone mentioned in this thread, if you didn't go through a similar childhood as Carmy, it may have not hit you very hard (this scene or others dealing with the effects of childhood trauma). I think the scene was incredibly well done but also incredibly sad as a viewer. The mom apologized in a really good way to the son for all the absolute **** she put him through... And yet, really sad as a viewer (and, frankly, unrealistic) because most people in real life don't get that apology from their mom (or dad). It's almost like the writers wanted to put that in the episode for all of us viewers who never got that apology from their mom (and never will). Because real life dysfunction doesn't have a clean apology like that.

Anyway, I enjoyed the season. Not as good as seasons 1-2 (not much is) but the grief/trauma was handled so well and that resonated with me.
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Marsh
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In reply to AJ02 • 5:16a, 7/9/25
AG
AJ02 said:
Yes! You brought up another thought I had while watching this season. There were 3 different people that had admitted to Carmey that they often thought about him, and he seemed so surprised and blown away by it. Lee, his mom, and Richie. Every time one of them said they often thought about him, you could see it hit him and he was shocked. And I GET IT!! Living a life like Carmey did growing up, oftentimes you get to feeling this way. The feeling like you could leave and no one would even remember you. So to hear that they not only remembered/thought of him, but they also admired him....it wasn't something he thought he'd ever hear.

And also him not knowing if he can trust the apology. He wants it so desperately. He wants nothing more than to hear his mom say she's proud of him, and that she's sorry. But there's also a part of him that is hesitant to believe it. It's such a dilemma that all of us with BPD moms have. Wanting so badly to get love and approval, but knowing in the past that it has ALWAYS been conditional. So even as an adult you still want it badly but can't quite believe it.


Really well said.
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EclipseAg
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11:42a, 7/10/25
AG
Yesterday I learned that Richie (Ebon Moss-Bachrach) portrayed John Quincy Adams in the great HBO mini-series "John Adams."

I'm rewatching "John Adams" and saw his name on the credits. Not sure I would have recognized him otherwise.

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PatAg
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In reply to EclipseAg • 12:43p, 7/10/25
AG
EclipseAg said:
Yesterday I learned that Richie (Ebon Moss-Bachrach) portrayed John Quincy Adams in the great HBO mini-series "John Adams."

I'm rewatching "John Adams" and saw his name on the credits. Not sure I would have recognized him otherwise.



I haven't rewatched that in a while, but thats crazy
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Diggity
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In reply to EclipseAg • 1:11p, 7/10/25
AG
he looks more like Carmy there.
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BowSowy
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6:02p, 7/10/25
AG
Really enjoyed this season, but I wish that final episode was the series finale. I feel like they tied things up nicely and even gave a little bit of hope for the restaurant.

Agreed with that tweet, I swore that guy was going to give them their star
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FancyKetchup14
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In reply to EclipseAg • 4:06a, 7/11/25
AG
I thought that was young James Spader for a second
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Ragoo
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6:48p, 7/19/25
AG
Scallop was such a good episode
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fav13andac1)c
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8:36a, 7/21/25
AG
The binge model needs to die. This thread would have been a lot more fun and engaging had it been a weekly release. It's hard to know who has seen it and who hasn't, and people who haven't seen it avoid the thread to avoid spoilers, and then join the thread after a measly conversation has already been had by the early-birds. Not to mention, Hulu has a lot more to gain from it as well! 10 straight weeks of subscribers!

It's a very well-made show, and deserves more attention and discussion. The entire production takes months to come together. So much money and hard work is poured into it by a ton of people, only for it to be a fart in the wind. The majority will forget about it in a few weeks.
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AgGrad99
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12:46p, 7/22/25
AG
I really enjoyed this season.

I've enjoyed every season, for slightly different reasons. But the different arcs the characters are taking is really good.

I will say, I was getting a bit annoyed at Sydney. The way she portrayed her anxiety/indecision got old. By the end I felt myself just saying...poop or get off the pot, I dont care anymore.

How can anyone not like Neil Fak? I love that guy. I realize he plays it up, but everyone has had goofballs in their life like that, they can relate to.
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Ragoo
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10:26p, 7/24/25
AG
Patti Griffin "Long Ride Home" in episode 8 warmed my heart. This song came out in 2002 and was played a lot on 92.1 KNBTFM. Beautiful song.
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Ragoo
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In reply to BowSowy • 5:35p, 7/26/25
AG
BowSowy said:
Really enjoyed this season, but I wish that final episode was the series finale. I feel like they tied things up nicely and even gave a little bit of hope for the restaurant.

Agreed with that tweet, I swore that guy was going to give them their star
disagree with the tied things up. They left so many plot lines open.

Carley found the green sweatshirt, does he return it to Claire? The kind of rekindled at Tif's wedding but that left things open with her. Is Carmey gone gone because the actor is doing two movies?

Richie and the kitchen boss lady kind of had some tension, does that turn into a thing?

What about The Beef window? Do they expand?

Marcus texted his dad after ghosting him, do they rekindle?

Sydney as partner what becomes of The Bear? What about the clock running out of time?

What about Tina? She struggled the whole season. She got the pasta under 3 min but her character was missing a lot of the episodes feels like something bigger is afoot here.

Just so many question marks with characters that ending here would leave the whole series unfulfilled.
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Ghost of Andrew Eaton
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In reply to AJ02 • 10:05a, 7/30/25
AJ02 said:
I guess I'm weird, bc I loved season 4. Yeah, it was introspective and dialogue heavy, but it all resonated deeply with me. The background and struggles of the various characters....it felt like the writer had lived my life for a lot of it. I was blown away by the little things that the writers picked up on. Stuff that probably didn't even register for most people who didn't experience a childhood like Carmey had. Like Lee when he was just about to say "you should go visit your mom", and he stopped just short. And Carmey later thanked him for not saying it. That hit deep for me.

Well said. My wife asked me a few years ago why I was always checking on her and asking if everything was okay when we were at home. I hadn't really thought about it but it came down to my mom. She was not as extreme as JLC's character but there was a lot of eggshell walking because you never knew when something was going to be a thing. Early on in our marriage, I would sometimes behave similar to my mom and thankfully, I've worked to where I realize what I'm doing when those impulses come around and I stop. But I just thought chaos was part of life. It was then that I realized that one of the things I loved most about our marriage and her influence on me was a calming effect. One of those life lightbulb moments. My brother and I talked and his wife plays a similar role.

I love this show. The wedding episode is probably my second favorite to Forks. Parents can **** you up but then you become one and I have a little more grace for my parents.

Sorry for the testimonial therapy session.
If you say you hate the state of politics in this nation and you don't get involved in it, you obviously don't hate the state of politics in this nation.
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GoAgs92
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11:30a, 7/30/25
AG
Wedding episode started good...

now it's absurd with this tiny table fort holding 20 people.
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JDUB08AG
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In reply to GoAgs92 • 1:01p, 7/30/25
AG
GoAgs92 said:
Wedding episode started good...

now it's absurd with this tiny table fort holding 20 people.

It reminded me of that scene in scary movie (can't remember which one) where they were mocking the sheriff from Signs and her hat kept getting bigger and bigger. As more people got under the table, it seemed it kept getting bigger lol
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MAROON
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1:15p, 7/30/25
AG
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Richie and the kitchen boss lady kind of had some tension, does that turn into a thing?

I was convinced they were going to hook up last season. She really gave him some hints the last day he was leaving the high-end restaurant.

Love the show. Really do not like Sydney at all. I swear she is on the specturm - she is just a strange person, that really cannot communicate with other people.
What do you boys want for breakfast BBQ ?.....OK Chili.
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Quinn
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1:23p, 7/30/25
AG
One moment that was really cool was when Richie was offered a partnership in The Bear. He almost couldn't believe it and was so grateful. I went back and watched the pilot and in his very first conversation/argument with Carmen, Carmen says "Then why didn't Mikey leave it (The Beef) to you?!" Neat to see this come full circle.

Overall, I really enjoyed this season, especially the second half. I thought the wedding episode showed the love and joy that was possible between these people and that the finale had the hard conversations in it. We had to get a Carmen/Richie conversation, and I think they nailed it. The whole episode was 3 great performers paying off four seasons of tension. I do think it could work as a series finale, but I'm interested to see where they take things next.
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