I think the answer is always in your diet.

2girlsdad said:

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What do y'all suggest is the best way to get down to 12% BF (I'm in the 18% range) without losing strength? I'm ok not gaining strength for a while, but I don't want to lose. Minor calorie deficit and Zone 2 walking on the treadmill for 30 minutes 3-5X per week?

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Go slow. Going slower preserves lean mass. Rapid loss = strength loss, especially in leaner individuals. Aim for 0.5-1.0% body weight loss per week.

Protein. ~1.6 to 2.0 g/kg of body weight. Recommendations are all over the place between bro science and actual science. There's no harm in going a bit higher, but don't feel pressured to slam 200g+ unless it helps you hit your total calories or manage hunger.

Carbs. Prioritize around training.

Lift Heavy. You're not trying to PR, but you must keep intensity high.

3-6 reps for compounds
2-3x/week for each major movement pattern

Walk. 30-45 minutes, 3-5x/week is a perfect fat-loss companion.

Doesn't interfere with recovery or strength
Helps regulate appetite
Mild caloric burn + recovery support

Have a refeed (1-2 high-carb days) or a full diet break (7-14 days at maintenance) if you begin to notice any of the following:

Fatigue, poor sleep, waking up cold
Low mood, short fuse, foggy thinking
Strength or pump drops
Stalled fat loss despite deficit
Constant hunger or food obsession

Those are all signs of adaptive thermogenesis.

Thanks for sharing! This is a good topic to look into.

Great advice, thanks!!

On a different note, barbell rows have become my new favorite lift. Now I do wear my belt loosely under the ribs AND use bb wraps, but can now easily do a 3x9 with 250 lbs. I love how my back has gotten thicker and wider and of course has helped my bench, deads, and even squats. My goal is to get a 3x3 with 300lbs.

This is going to be tough. Especially at that % body fat.

The poster above nails the general consensus on this.

You will probably need to cut volume and up intensity. Do the big stuff. Cardio is only a brisk walk.

And you will need to take it slow.

You are going to lose some top end strength most likely. Its just the way of it.

OR, there is another school of thought for your consideration. Grip and rip it. Drop calories fast, drop the weight fast (Ie, you are actually limiting your time in a deficit) and get it done within 2-3 months. Everything is going to suck, but it will only suck for a short amount of time. Then you can gradually pull up your calories (reverse diet), to bring it all back to maintenance, then slowly increase to put back on good weight/muscle/strength.

2girlsdad said:

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On a different note, barbell rows have become my new favorite lift. Now I do wear my belt loosely under the ribs AND use bb wraps, but can now easily do a 3x9 with 250 lbs. I love how my back has gotten thicker and wider and of course has helped my bench, deads, and even squats. My goal is to get a 3x3 with 300lbs.

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What kind of BB rows? Also agree in the past it has been a major supplement to my deadlift.

Just the normal bent over rows, butt out and extend the bar all the way down to stretch the lats and then bring the bar to the waist.

Switch them up in 6 weeks with some Kroc rows. I think they are better than barbell rows. If nothing else, you are changing the stimuli.

I would, but my home gym powerblocks only get up to 100 lbs, so I would need to try using the bb on a landmine to go heavy.

Meadows Rows

Failed overhead press again. I'm thinking it's a combination of technique and not taking a long enough rest between sets. I tried the suicide grip as suggested and that definitely helped. Also tried to focus on getting underneath the bar as it went up to take pressure off my back.

My split was 5/5/5/3/5, with a longer rest preceding the last set. I also had some lower back pain after. One of the things I read about that was to squeeze the glutes during. Going to try that next.

In other news, I've gained 5 lbs in 8 weeks, so at 0.625 lbs per week I'm on pace with weight gain from what I've read. I've also seen others recommend 1 lb/week for beginners because of the newbie gains. Also important to note that I've hovered around that 5 lb gain mark for about 5 weeks out of the 8. What do yall think?

Do them strict and controlled. Kroc is a weirdo but the man now woman knows how to get strong.

Are you wearing a belt? Are you wearing wrist wraps? Are you taking smaller jumps? (ie 2.5 lbs a jump).

What's the weight at?

Keep in mind that press is the first to stall out. Its a very finicky lift.

What?

Janae Kroc - Wikipedia

Tex117 said:

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Are you wearing a belt? Are you wearing wrist wraps? Are you taking smaller jumps? (ie 2.5 lbs a jump).

What's the weight at?

Keep in mind that press is the first to stall out. Its a very finicky lift.

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I am wearing a belt. I haven't been using wrist wraps (should I?). I had been taking 5 lb jumps up until I failed 90 lbs two 5x5 attempts in a row.

I figured it stalled out the earliest based on what I've seen from others. Not discouraged, just wanting to figure it out. It's definitely getting me to focus on the finer details as I don't want to injure myself.

Don't neglect your grip strength/forearms but that is the limiting factor on things like heavy rows the majority of the time. Maybe go raw for a little bit and then switch to straps once you get to working set or your grip starts to fatigue.

At that point, I'd just deload the recommended 10% since that's only 10 pounds. See if the break helps, you'll be back to where you were in 2 workouts.

Sometimes you're just gassed. Whether it's the cumulative fatigue, sleep, stress, whatever. Plenty of weeks I miss or struggle on stuff that was cake a month earlier. And with OHP it's a lot harder to just use brute strength to power through.

I'd deload, if you get stuck again I'd deload a second time coming up in 2.5 increments instead of 5 to maybe give your triceps a chance to gain strength from bench.

Cheers yall. Thanks so much for the input.

Haven't been very active on the board in a while but have continued my 5x5 workouts. Finally plateaud out at 200lbs on Bench Press 5x5 (fell 1 rep short of completion) and decided to see what I could get on one rep max. Based on what I was reading online, I should be able to get between 230-235. Warmed up, went for 235 and immediately knew I had to go for 245. Did it. Now regret not going for the big 250 because I did 245 without killing myself and had I not done 235 and 245, I am fairly confident I could have gotten 250. Maybe next week or so, I'll give it a go. Just wanted to say thanks to the guys on this forum, even if I don't chat much, I follow along and learn some things.

Great job!

Awesome! That 2 plate milestone is a big one. I'm trying to grind for my third plate right now.

CC09LawAg said:

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At that point, I'd just deload the recommended 10% since that's only 10 pounds. See if the break helps, you'll be back to where you were in 2 workouts.

Sometimes you're just gassed. Whether it's the cumulative fatigue, sleep, stress, whatever. Plenty of weeks I miss or struggle on stuff that was cake a month earlier. And with OHP it's a lot harder to just use brute strength to power through.

I'd deload, if you get stuck again I'd deload a second time coming up in 2.5 increments instead of 5 to maybe give your triceps a chance to gain strength from bench.

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My pride got to me and I stuck with 90 lbs and failed again. This time with fewer reps than both of my other attempts. It's like my body is telling me "I already told you you weren't ready for that." Deloading for the next workout.

https://startingstrength.com/article/the_first_three_questions

Man, wrist wraps are pretty awesome. Id consider giving them a shot.

Also, consider the 2.5 lb jump. Additionally, maybe switch to a 3x5. See how far you can get. Then swtich to a 5x3.

It's good to push because it's the only way you learn what it feels like when you need to back off. Long term, it's all valuable data and you learn from it.

Pride never really goes away though - I'm currently struggling with what I want to program for my next training block. My heart wants to repeat my balls to the wall program, but my head tells me I should try to back off and see if I still make progress on something a little less intense.

Ezra Brooks said:

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https://startingstrength.com/article/the_first_three_questions

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Quote:

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But nobody and I mean no-body can get big and strong on 2500 calories a day. This is a ridiculous piece of government-inspired bull****, and has interfered with the progress of most people who try to get big and strong. And if you're not willing to eat more than you want to, you won't get big and strong.

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Man this hit me like a sack of potatoes, because as of yesterday I was on 2500 calories a day. I spent some time yesterday researching how to extract Apple Watch data so I could get an average of my TDEE. Apparently, Apple Watch does a pretty good job calculating resting energy and active energy. As a result, I upped my calories to about 3150 today and will continue to evaluate.

Regarding Question 1 on rest. I just do not have time when doing 5x5 to rest 7-8 minutes between sets. I wouldn't be opposed to switching to 3x5, but I also don't want to switch programs so quickly when I just got on this one.

I also ordered some wrist wraps.

Thanks for the input yall. I'm determined to get past this first obstacle. Not to get all sentimental, but it's been awesome being a part of the community on this thread and hearing everybody's perspective. It has helped keep me engaged over the past couple months.

fav13andac1)c said:

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Regarding Question 1 on rest. I just do not have time when doing 5x5 to rest 7-8 minutes between sets. I wouldn't be opposed to switching to 3x5, but I also don't want to switch programs so quickly when I just got on this one.

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I hear you. I generally aim for 1.5 to 3 minutes of rest between sets - I will go up to 5 minutes or so for my heaviest sets.

Progressive overload doesn't just apply to the weight on the bar - you can do things like more time under tension, less rest between sets, etc. and make improvements that way as well.

This is just anecdotal and my personal experience, but for 5x5 if you're getting to where you're having to rest 5+ minutes between sets it might be time for a new program. Now, if you have no other obligations and all the time in the world or are legitimately training for some kind of event I might feel differently, but for an adult with the usual job, wife, kids, etc. lifestyle, if the goal is to keep it at an hour or less I don't see how you can get it done with those rest intervals.

I would save switching to 3x5 for when you have failed and had to deload 3 times and keep plateauing. And then I'd look at my progress overall and decide if the other three lifts are still making progress on 5x5. If yes, I'd stay on 5x5 and wait for one or two other lifts to stall before looking for a new program.

But if I was plateauing on squat or deadlift, I'd probably look to switch programs just because of the overall level of fatigue those lifts place on your body. If you're sucking wind on one or both of those and keep bombing your lifts, it's going to negatively impact your overall training IMO and it's probably time for a program with more periodic interval training in mind.

For me, if it's my OHP that is stalling and I'm doing 3x5 but my squat and deadlift are still increasing, I'm going to keep pushing 5x5 on my other lifts till that isn't the case and maybe just throw in tricep work or some other accessory on OHP day to hopefully make some progress there. But I care a lot less about my upper body lifts and am more interested in big squat and deadlift numbers so that may be different for you.

CC09LawAg said:

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fav13andac1)c said:

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Regarding Question 1 on rest. I just do not have time when doing 5x5 to rest 7-8 minutes between sets. I wouldn't be opposed to switching to 3x5, but I also don't want to switch programs so quickly when I just got on this one.

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I hear you. I generally aim for 1.5 to 3 minutes of rest between sets - I will go up to 5 minutes or so for my heaviest sets.

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Part of my enjoyment with power lifting are the longer rest increments.

Another great part about PL is if you are a SHW, you don't have to worry about weight so your only goal is to get as strong as you can so you get to eat. Even better, it is hard to get the calories you need by eating clean so you get to eat whaterver you want. My Whataburger meal that they named the Ark at my local place - two of everything - double meat, double cheese, 2 slices of bacon, 2 fried chicken strips, Whatasized with a coke or milkshake. It was like 2500 calories.

16 weeks in. I really dialed in and focused on getting adequate protein the last 2-3 weeks and I've seen pretty significant growth as a result.

Decided to go for 250 LBs on Bench Press after being very close last week..... and got it! Now time to set a new goal.... maybe do a cut again to drop another round of pounds.

Deload this week, then starting a block with less volume and intensity. Hoping less is more and I don't burn myself out.

Didn't quite hit my max lifts this week I was hoping for but I am right around my max from last year after my break, and that was with me going for them after a 3x5 and not just working up to a max.

A little frustrating but hopefully something I'll learn from and see how the next few months go. If I start to plateau here it's uncharted territory for me so I'll have to figure it out.