*****Official Reciprocal Tariff Thread*****

46,258 Views | 669 Replies | Last: 1 day ago by BTHOB
BusterAg
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will25u said:

Guess they changed their mind on retaliatory tariffs.


Have to address VAT, and we are good.

With the EU, since they don't really manipulate their currency as much as Asia, the only issues are tariffs and VAT.
It takes a special kind of brainwashed useful idiot to politically defend government fraud, waste, and abuse.
Krombopulos Michael
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You do realize the Chinese are going to sell their US debt holdings as a response, right? And maybe even encourage their BRICS friends to do the same.

Bond yields climb too high and things here start to implode rapidly.......there is only so much the FED can do to suppress rates.


Trump needs to help them save face before midnight tonight.
BusterAg
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Woudn't China dumping US bonds reduce the amount of Yuan in circulation significantly? Wouldn't that make the Yuan a lot stronger?

Not sure the Chinese economy can survive a strong Yuan.
It takes a special kind of brainwashed useful idiot to politically defend government fraud, waste, and abuse.
Krombopulos Michael
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Im not worried about the Yuan.

It's the lack of buyers of US debt that concerns me. There is a couple trillion coming up soon.

If the Chinese sell and don't buy more. Do you think the EU or Canadians are going to be willing to help Trump out? How about the rest of the BRICS? Japan has its own problems.

Who's left? US banks, Insurance Co's, Pension funds, and hedge funds??


will25u
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JohnClark929
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85% of China's exports go to other countries. It's not like we are their only customer.
Ag In Ok
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True but one relevant data point i am looking to confirm are the tariffs other nations now have or are about to have on Chinese imports. China moved away from real estate after that bubble burst into manufacturing. Which if agreed to across the world would destroy industry across the first world. That is a no go for any advanced nation. Why give in to a country that throws debt into their system with abandon and pegs their currency to the dollar to prevent proper valuation.
Again, this is 21st century hot economic warfare.
mm98
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Well we just paused all shipments from China if not on a vessel by today. About 6M worth of materials.
Krombopulos Michael
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Essential or non-essential goods?

agwrestler
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JobSecurity said:

I'll be waiting for that tax cut


I think we all will until there's a surplus.
Rapier108
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mm98 said:

Well we just paused all shipments from China if not on a vessel by today. About 6M worth of materials.
I suspect I'm going be hearing the same thing from a lot of companies very soon.
"If you will not fight for right when you can easily win without blood shed; if you will not fight when your victory is sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves." - Sir Winston Churchill
mm98
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Krombopulos Michael said:

Essential or non-essential goods?




I'd classify them as essential. I'm in distribution so my business is inventory, buy, resell.

We have enough of this product on hand so the risk is a stockout closer to the holidays. But at these rates that's something we're willing to risk.
Ag In Ok
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Thankful we just finished an elevator modernization project. Just about all motors of that size and ability come from China.
aezmvp
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Just heard we paused over $50mm today. I was on the call for one. Rep basically had his entire book in China cancelled. Gone. Said things will get picked up in their Philippines, Vietnam, Thailand, Malaysia and Indonesia partners. Rep said the Chinese folks were screaming at them over the phones/zoom but there is nothing they can do. China can't back down, can't live with this permanently. If deals with Japan, South Korea and Vietnam are hammered out quickly, and especially if they announce deals or frameworks for other SE Asian countries, China is going to feel a huge chunk taken out. They have been trying for years to boost native consumer demand and that has only really happened at the top 1-5% of their country. No other partner countries, really anywhere, have the market that China can dump into. They're already directing state corporations to buy back stock and lending money to insurance carriers and their sovereign wealth fund to buy stocks to prevent a bigger drop. But that only goes on so long. They can up the trade war and they have some really, really big cards to play but...
javajaws
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BusterAg said:

will25u said:

Guess they changed their mind on retaliatory tariffs.


Have to address VAT, and we are good.

With the EU, since they don't really manipulate their currency as much as Asia, the only issues are tariffs and VAT.
You will never get them to remove VAT because it is a consumption tax, not an import tax. Imports and domestic EU goods pay VAT equally.
will25u
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will25u
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Dan Scott
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It's a trade war

nortex97
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Fitch
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This move has already been gamed out.
Ozzy Osbourne
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"So what" indeed. This is just posturing so the CCP doesn't look weak.
Mr.Milkshake
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Bessent is such a bad ass
BusterAg
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javajaws said:

BusterAg said:

will25u said:

Guess they changed their mind on retaliatory tariffs.


Have to address VAT, and we are good.

With the EU, since they don't really manipulate their currency as much as Asia, the only issues are tariffs and VAT.
You will never get them to remove VAT because it is a consumption tax, not an import tax. Imports and domestic EU goods pay VAT equally.
Don't need to remove VAT, just address it. There are various ways of addressing it.

The EU doesn't charge VAT on exports into the US. This sets up a competition barrier between domestic US manufacturers and EU exporters, because EU income taxes are lower in the EU compared to the government services offered in the EU due to the VAT.

But, we have been round and round about this.

Not charging exporters VAT is no different than giving exporters a tax credit. It is an anticompetitive subsidy.
It takes a special kind of brainwashed useful idiot to politically defend government fraud, waste, and abuse.
will25u
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will25u
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This is a biggie!

javajaws
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BusterAg said:

javajaws said:

BusterAg said:

will25u said:

Guess they changed their mind on retaliatory tariffs.


Have to address VAT, and we are good.

With the EU, since they don't really manipulate their currency as much as Asia, the only issues are tariffs and VAT.
You will never get them to remove VAT because it is a consumption tax, not an import tax. Imports and domestic EU goods pay VAT equally.
Don't need to remove VAT, just address it. There are various ways of addressing it.

The EU doesn't charge VAT on exports into the US. This sets up a competition barrier between domestic US manufacturers and EU exporters, because EU income taxes are lower in the EU compared to the government services offered in the EU due to the VAT.

But, we have been round and round about this.

Not charging exporters VAT is no different than giving exporters a tax credit. It is an anticompetitive subsidy.
Of course they don't charge exports VAT because exports aren't consumed within their borders. VAT is a consumption tax on their people.

Look at it this way:

If they charged a VAT on their exports then that would unfairly disadvantage their exports. US companies don't pay VAT on goods sold within the US so why should goods being imported into the US?'

And before you say "Well US companies pay income tax..." - well, EU companies pay income tax too. So how would them paying VAT on their exports be fair trade? They WOULD pay a VAT if the US had a VAT (US companies would pay as well), but we don't so no need to pay one.

You have to understand that their overall tax rate (VAT + corp income tax) is HIGHER than US corp tax alone. And the average EU corp tax is comparable but slightly lower on average than the US corp tax rate (you would need to calculate a weighted average to see how much the difference is, but it would effectively be under 4%).

I'll keep responding to this nonsense that VAT is a discriminatory trade barrier until proven otherwise. And so far, you keep ignoring EU corp tax rates.
will25u
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FireAg
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will25u said:



And now it all starts coming into focus…
will25u
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Is the pause for the countries that have responded? Or all? What about the ones that added more tariffs like the EU?

aggiegolfer2012
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What a **** show
Decide what we're gonna do and do it

This is the problem with this being left to the whims of the president. If somebody from a different party was in office, we'd be wondering what they had sold and bought right before the tariff announcement and the delay announcement.
Ag In Ok
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aggiegolfer2012 said:

What a **** show
Decide what we're gonna do and do it

This is the problem with this being left to the whims of the president. If somebody from a different party was in office, we'd be wondering what they had sold and bought right before the tariff announcement and the delay announcement.


You know Pelosi is hyper pissed - in the dark and not banking!
will25u
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will25u
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I hope that Congress would let the President do what he is elected to do...

But I don't like these silly serious bending of rules to help one side or the other. If Congress has the votes to do this, then let them legislate. But I also don't like whipsaw reactions from Congress on things President does.

Ag In Ok
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That's rich - like it or not congress hasn't done a damn thing about tariffs since 1930 when they legislated Hoovers tariffs on ag products. Given this is a hot trade war with a hostile China, trump can do this. Though i do believe to do so he has to reset pretty much every other nations tariffs to accommodate what will be a colossal shift in manufacturing.
I appreciate what Massie has done to seek spending reductions in congress. But he was smacked down and what are the odds a congress that spends this way is able to address tariffs.
will25u
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