newbie11 said:

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I'm certainly not a macroeconomist but it certainly seems that trumps tariffs are forcing many countries to capitulate. And very quickly.

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Almost like we have all of the leverage

pic.twitter.com/ixA23My5F6

— Bilbo Baggins (@Jbanklestankle1) April 3, 2025

ETFan said:

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Quo Vadis? said:

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DonHenley said:

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Trump is careening the economy to a recession and has tanked the stock market, wiping out billions in investments. He's gonna hand the Dems the midterms in 26' because people don't care about trade wars and illegal immigration when the economy sucks.

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Good lord dude, the stock market is where it was 8 months ago. Sorry you can't have phony double digit returns every year.

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You folks will just eat anything won't you?

Campaign trail was all about cost of groceries, inflation, blah blah.

Now it's "yes dear leader I will eat a **** sandwich for you!"

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You haven't read much on this forum about the tariffs, have you?

Using short term stock movements is not a good way to measure long term economic policy. Too much noise.

Oh, and equities are still around 19 forward P/E, which is over historical medians. We are only in correction mode right now.

MagnumLoad said:

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BusterAg said:

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Please do not call the crap that Trump rolled out on 4/2 reciprocal tariffs. It just hurts the discussion. They are Trump's tariffs, but they are not reciprocal tariffs.

Reciprocal tariffs are a good idea. This crap Trump put out is not.

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So, they needed to be higher to be equal to their tariffs on us??

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The equation used to calculate tariffs was primarily related to trade imbalances, not foreign tariffs. It had nothing to do with the level of the tariffs. It had to do with how they were calculated. Therefore, they are not reciprocal tariffs.

What Trump rolled out on 4/2 was not reciprocal tariffs.

CIVIL WAR: California is attempting to break away from its economic union with the US. Gov. Gavin Newsom is directing the state to pursue ‘strategic’ relationships with countries announcing retaliatory tariffs asking them to exclude California-made products from their tariffs. pic.twitter.com/jkuYIHoB7k

— @amuse (@amuse) April 4, 2025

BusterAg said:

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ETFan said:

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Quo Vadis? said:

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DonHenley said:

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Trump is careening the economy to a recession and has tanked the stock market, wiping out billions in investments. He's gonna hand the Dems the midterms in 26' because people don't care about trade wars and illegal immigration when the economy sucks.

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Good lord dude, the stock market is where it was 8 months ago. Sorry you can't have phony double digit returns every year.

---

You folks will just eat anything won't you?

Campaign trail was all about cost of groceries, inflation, blah blah.

Now it's "yes dear leader I will eat a **** sandwich for you!"

---

You haven't read much on this forum about the tariffs, have you?

Using short term stock movements is not a good way to measure long term economic policy. Too much noise.

Oh, and equities are still around 19 forward P/E, which is over historical medians. We are only in correction mode right now.

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Incredible cope. Trying to imagine a democrat president doing this and the reaction here.

"He told us he would raise prices, stop the falling inflation rate, raid our equities, destroy all relationships with allies, and force a recession, he campaigned on that! And I voted for it!"

Ok, sure.

EDIT: Sorry, lil aggressive, just frustrated at the stupidity of this move.

🇺🇸🇦🇷 UNITED STATES AND ARGENTINA BECOME THE FIRST ZERO-TARIFF COUNTRIES

Presidents Trump and Milei will sign the first international trade agreement free of tariffs for both American and Argentine products.

This is how negotiations should be done pic.twitter.com/TTcVpOXQ8U

— George Papadopoulos (@GeorgePapa19) April 4, 2025

wessimo said:

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LMCane said:

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so the Stock Market is crashing...

all the way back down to the level it was at in October 2024.

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So far... /Homer Simpson

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Apr/May 2024 levels now. Last 12 months of gains gone *poof*

will25u said:

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🇺🇸🇦🇷 UNITED STATES AND ARGENTINA BECOME THE FIRST ZERO-TARIFF COUNTRIES

Presidents Trump and Milei will sign the first international trade agreement free of tariffs for both American and Argentine products.

This is how negotiations should be done pic.twitter.com/TTcVpOXQ8U

— George Papadopoulos (@GeorgePapa19) April 4, 2025

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So is the the game plan? Negotiate tariffs down to zero with most countries and call victory?

ETFan said:

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BusterAg said:

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ETFan said:

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Quo Vadis? said:

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DonHenley said:

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Trump is careening the economy to a recession and has tanked the stock market, wiping out billions in investments. He's gonna hand the Dems the midterms in 26' because people don't care about trade wars and illegal immigration when the economy sucks.

---

Good lord dude, the stock market is where it was 8 months ago. Sorry you can't have phony double digit returns every year.

---

You folks will just eat anything won't you?

Campaign trail was all about cost of groceries, inflation, blah blah.

Now it's "yes dear leader I will eat a **** sandwich for you!"

---

You haven't read much on this forum about the tariffs, have you?

Using short term stock movements is not a good way to measure long term economic policy. Too much noise.

Oh, and equities are still around 19 forward P/E, which is over historical medians. We are only in correction mode right now.

---

Incredible cope. Trying to imagine a democrat president doing this and the reaction here.

"He told us he would raise prices, stop the falling inflation rate, raid our equities, destroy all relationships with allies, and force a recession, he campaigned on that! And I voted for it!"

Ok, sure.

EDIT: Sorry, lil aggressive, just frustrated at the stupidity of this move.

---

Very few people are happy about 4/2. Including me. He campaigned on reciprocal tariffs. That is not what he delivered. I am pissed.

However, using short term stock movements is not a good way to measure long term economic policy. Too much noise.

Oh, and equities are still around 19 forward P/E, which is over historical medians. We are only in correction mode right now.

wessimo said:

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will25u said:

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🇺🇸🇦🇷 UNITED STATES AND ARGENTINA BECOME THE FIRST ZERO-TARIFF COUNTRIES

Presidents Trump and Milei will sign the first international trade agreement free of tariffs for both American and Argentine products.

This is how negotiations should be done pic.twitter.com/TTcVpOXQ8U

— George Papadopoulos (@GeorgePapa19) April 4, 2025

---

So is the the game plan? Negotiate tariffs down to zero with most countries and call victory?

---

If this is the game plan, Trump will likely win at the negotiating table and the court of public opinion.

I will be ecstatic with this result if it happens across the board.

The sticking points will be VAT and passthrough tariffs. We can't have China exporting to Mexico, who exports those things to US tariff free.

But, a whole bunch of free trade agreements out of this makes Trump look like a genius.

We shall see.

BusterAg said:

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ETFan said:

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BusterAg said:

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ETFan said:

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Quo Vadis? said:

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DonHenley said:

---

Trump is careening the economy to a recession and has tanked the stock market, wiping out billions in investments. He's gonna hand the Dems the midterms in 26' because people don't care about trade wars and illegal immigration when the economy sucks.

---

Good lord dude, the stock market is where it was 8 months ago. Sorry you can't have phony double digit returns every year.

---

You folks will just eat anything won't you?

Campaign trail was all about cost of groceries, inflation, blah blah.

Now it's "yes dear leader I will eat a **** sandwich for you!"

---

You haven't read much on this forum about the tariffs, have you?

Using short term stock movements is not a good way to measure long term economic policy. Too much noise.

Oh, and equities are still around 19 forward P/E, which is over historical medians. We are only in correction mode right now.

---

Incredible cope. Trying to imagine a democrat president doing this and the reaction here.

"He told us he would raise prices, stop the falling inflation rate, raid our equities, destroy all relationships with allies, and force a recession, he campaigned on that! And I voted for it!"

Ok, sure.

EDIT: Sorry, lil aggressive, just frustrated at the stupidity of this move.

---

Very few people are happy about 4/2. Including me. He campaigned on reciprocal tariffs. That is not what he delivered. I am pissed.

However, using short term stock movements is not a good way to measure long term economic policy. Too much noise.

Oh, and equities are still around 19 forward P/E, which is over historical medians. We are only in correction mode right now.

---

Tie it to long term economic expectations then: who in their right mind is pouring capital expenditures anywhere globally for the foreseeable future when the largest economic power imposes massive sweeping taxes on a random and flawed formula that seems to have happened out of nowhere?

It's basically a formula to guarantee a global recession.

Even if this dictates a bunch of free trade agreements, you've basically spooked the entire economy into absolute skiddishness possibly for years to come.

ATM9000 said:

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It's basically a formula to guarantee a global recession.

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People are slowly getting it. This is all on purpose. Maga was tricked and now we all get to ride the ship to the bottom.

BusterAg said:

---

wessimo said:

---

will25u said:

---

🇺🇸🇦🇷 UNITED STATES AND ARGENTINA BECOME THE FIRST ZERO-TARIFF COUNTRIES

Presidents Trump and Milei will sign the first international trade agreement free of tariffs for both American and Argentine products.

This is how negotiations should be done pic.twitter.com/TTcVpOXQ8U

— George Papadopoulos (@GeorgePapa19) April 4, 2025

---

So is the the game plan? Negotiate tariffs down to zero with most countries and call victory?

---

If this is the game plan, Trump will likely win at the negotiating table and the court of public opinion.

I will be ecstatic with this result if it happens across the board.

The sticking points will be VAT and passthrough tariffs. We can't have China exporting to Mexico, who exports those things to US tariff free.

But, a whole bunch of free trade agreements out of this makes Trump look like a genius.

We shall see.

---

I'd LOVE more free trade agreements, but that would only result in higher trade deficits for us because we're the biggest consumers in the world. Now I don't have a problem with that, but it seems our president does. And if his stated aim is to reduce deficits, I don't see how that jives with free trade agreements.

That logic hurts my brain

The idea is for the massive capital expenditures to be invested here. This is too hard for some, or they just invested money they can't let ride. Too bad.

The correction has been coming. This was the excuse

wessimo said:

---

will25u said:

---

🇺🇸🇦🇷 UNITED STATES AND ARGENTINA BECOME THE FIRST ZERO-TARIFF COUNTRIES

Presidents Trump and Milei will sign the first international trade agreement free of tariffs for both American and Argentine products.

This is how negotiations should be done pic.twitter.com/TTcVpOXQ8U

— George Papadopoulos (@GeorgePapa19) April 4, 2025

---

So is the the game plan? Negotiate tariffs down to zero with most countries and call victory?

---

Considering he imposed tariffs on multiple countries with whom we already had free trade agreements, it's a pretty bone-headed strategy. Effectively: 1) cause a problem, 2) claim the problem always existed, 3) solve the problem and congratulate yourself.

MagnumLoad said:

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The idea is for the massive capital expenditures to be invested here. This is too hard for some, or they just invested money they can't let ride. Too bad.

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And how long do you think it will take to complete rebuilding things like manufacturing plants etc?. And the companies who would make those capital expenditures....their bottom line is still getting hit now so its going to cost them even more to make those capital investments.

I like the 'too bad' part. That's what I say to people who were set to retire and their portfolio just took a huge dive. They love it.

It must be nice for the libertarians to have something to complain about other than age of consent laws.

this week has made it clear that some people will always default to the belief that trump is right no matter and then pretzel their brains into knots trying to invent elaborate justifications to support that belief.

everything about this tariff policy from its underlying theory to its application has been weapons grade level stupid. we're igniting a global trade war and possibly a recession for no gain.

Haven't had much winning lately.

Desperately need some winning.

So far this is about a 9% correction. They happen and this one was coming. Just chill, continue to do your job and let your investments ride. The long term benefits of this will be good and the markets will come back and rise higher.

Old McDonald said:

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this week has made it clear that some people will always default to the belief that trump is right no matter and then pretzel their brains into knots trying to invent elaborate justifications to support that belief.

everything about this tariff policy from its underlying theory to its application has been weapons grade level stupid. we're igniting a global trade war and possibly a recession for no gain.

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Not unique to Trump supporters - democrat voters do that all the time as well. Its an inherently human thing to do unfortunately.

The market should never be viewed short term by normal people. Buy companies that have a long track record of making a profit, that pay a decent dividend, and produce products or provide services that are essential. Then ignore the noise.

Edited to add that I learned this after trying speculation in my younger years and getting slaughtered.

ATM9000 said:

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BusterAg said:

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Very few people are happy about 4/2. Including me. He campaigned on reciprocal tariffs. That is not what he delivered. I am pissed.

However, using short term stock movements is not a good way to measure long term economic policy. Too much noise.

Oh, and equities are still around 19 forward P/E, which is over historical medians. We are only in correction mode right now.

---

Tie it to long term economic expectations then: who in their right mind is pouring capital expenditures anywhere globally for the foreseeable future when the largest economic power imposes massive sweeping taxes on a random and flawed formula that seems to have happened out of nowhere?

It's basically a formula to guarantee a global recession.

Even if this dictates a bunch of free trade agreements, you've basically spooked the entire economy into absolute skiddishness possibly for years to come.

---

Rocking the boat and making some waves is preferable than continuing to take it up the kiester for the sake of getting along.

Were you born in Canada?

Old McDonald said:

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this week has made it clear that some people will always default to the belief that trump is right no matter and then pretzel their brains into knots trying to invent elaborate justifications to support that belief.

everything about this tariff policy from its underlying theory to its application has been weapons grade level stupid. we're igniting a global trade war and possibly a recession for no gain.

---

There will always be some of those people on both sides.

But, the MSM and most of the concerned moderates on here are pretending like Trump supporters are OK with 4/2.

The vast majority are not.

I support the idea of reciprocal tariffs, and not allowing other countries to use tariffs to continue to hollow out the US middle class. The Trump tariffs on 4/2 were stupid, and were not that.

On the other side, too many people are jumping on the bandwagon of disgust about the 4/2 tariffs from some MAGA to claim that MAGA is all of the sudden against tariffs now. It's a false dichotomy.

For example, there is a difference between being ok with sensible immigration policies, including a path to citizenship for DACA people, and an immigration policy where US tax payers are paying for plane tickets to fly Venezuela drug dealers into the US. You can be for sensible immigration and still be really pissed at the Biden and Harris human trafficking program over the last four years.

I'm not for sensible immigration right now. We need to deport, deport, deport. But, I would likely not be there if it wasn't for Obama and Biden.

Rocking the boat and making some waves is preferable than continuing to take it up the kiester for the sake of getting along.

Were you born in Canada?

Hey,

I take offence to that comment, a complicatedly proud born Canadian. I personally believe that the systemic shake up is a long term positive. The US needs to do something to kill the rot. Canada politically is an absolutely basket case. We are so embarrassingly controlled and manipulated, any and all craziness to shake people alive is welcome.

Our pathway is towards Venezuela. The majority of the countries' personal finances are on the brink of collapse. In our last two weeks we have received our largest tax relief changes since in my life. I feel thats attributed to a significant degree to Canadians waking up to how we ****ed ourselves. This would not have happened without Trump slapping us in the face.

Grapes said:

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Rocking the boat and making some waves is preferable than continuing to take it up the kiester for the sake of getting along.

Were you born in Canada?

Hey,

I take offence to that comment, a complicatedly proud born Canadian. I personally believe that the systemic shake up is a long term positive. The US needs to do something to kill the rot. Canada politically is an absolutely basket case. We are so embarrassingly controlled and manipulated, any and all craziness to shake people alive is welcome.

Our pathway is towards Venezuela. The majority of the countries' personal finances are on the brink of collapse. In our last two weeks we have received our largest tax relief changes since in my life. I feel thats attributed to a significant degree to Canadians waking up to how we ****ed ourselves. This would not have happened without Trump slapping us in the face.

---

Well, your post made my point on Canadians in general not sticking up for themselves in order to avoid rocking the boat. Even you are pretty disgusted by your comrades on how easily they roll over.

I do hope that Canada turns itself around sometime in the future. It is in the US best interest for a stronger Canada.

Carny is definitely not the way to go, though, so you guys are still a little way away from recovery.

The truth is that Canadian citizens are in a really bad way. Canadian per capita GDP is roughly equal to Mississippi's per capita GDP, and Mississippi is 50th out of 50 states in per capita GDP.

BusterAg said:

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Old McDonald said:

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this week has made it clear that some people will always default to the belief that trump is right no matter and then pretzel their brains into knots trying to invent elaborate justifications to support that belief.

everything about this tariff policy from its underlying theory to its application has been weapons grade level stupid. we're igniting a global trade war and possibly a recession for no gain.

---

There will always be some of those people on both sides.

But, the MSM and most of the concerned moderates on here are pretending like Trump supporters are OK with 4/2.

The vast majority are not.

I support the idea of reciprocal tariffs, and not allowing other countries to use tariffs to continue to hollow out the US middle class. The Trump tariffs on 4/2 were stupid, and were not that.

On the other side, too many people are jumping on the bandwagon of disgust about the 4/2 tariffs from some MAGA to claim that MAGA is all of the sudden against tariffs now. It's a false dichotomy.

For example, there is a difference between being ok with sensible immigration policies, including a path to citizenship for DACA people, and an immigration policy where US tax payers are paying for plane tickets to fly Venezuela drug dealers into the US. You can be for sensible immigration and still be really pissed at the Biden and Harris human trafficking program over the last four years.

I'm not for sensible immigration right now. We need to deport, deport, deport. But, I would likely not be there if it wasn't for Obama and Biden.

---

To your point, sensible immigration is ONLY possible once all the rot has been cleaned out.

And that is the point of these tariffs- our trade agreements and borders have been rotted out for so long you have to completely reset them.

Like building a house back up from the studs.

I am okay with the tariffs as a temporary issue, to bring trading partners back in line with reasonableness.

The WTO has been China's lackey for 3 decades now and we have to reset everything.

Much of the rot is directly attributable to chinese interference as was put on display regarding Canada's new PM amd his Chinese affiliations.

Personally I think China is aware of the fact that as DOGE and others dig deeper, the extent to which our government has been hollowed out by China will be exposed and the US will finally put a stop to it.

Then China will be forced to make a decision- make their move on Tawain and the rest of the world now or wait and possibly never get their revenge for the 100 years of shame.

Make no mistake China is the boogeyman here-

Chinese ties to Canada are being revealed, Chinese Ties to UK are being revealed, Chinese attempts to co trol the Panama canal are being revealed, Chinese attempts to control rare earth in Africa are being thwarted.

Personally I think they were banking on another few years to finish the Silk Road Project before having to confront us so I am glad this is happening now before their timeline.

Ags4DaWin said:

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BusterAg said:

---

Old McDonald said:

---

this week has made it clear that some people will always default to the belief that trump is right no matter and then pretzel their brains into knots trying to invent elaborate justifications to support that belief.

everything about this tariff policy from its underlying theory to its application has been weapons grade level stupid. we're igniting a global trade war and possibly a recession for no gain.

---

There will always be some of those people on both sides.

But, the MSM and most of the concerned moderates on here are pretending like Trump supporters are OK with 4/2.

The vast majority are not.

I support the idea of reciprocal tariffs, and not allowing other countries to use tariffs to continue to hollow out the US middle class. The Trump tariffs on 4/2 were stupid, and were not that.

On the other side, too many people are jumping on the bandwagon of disgust about the 4/2 tariffs from some MAGA to claim that MAGA is all of the sudden against tariffs now. It's a false dichotomy.

For example, there is a difference between being ok with sensible immigration policies, including a path to citizenship for DACA people, and an immigration policy where US tax payers are paying for plane tickets to fly Venezuela drug dealers into the US. You can be for sensible immigration and still be really pissed at the Biden and Harris human trafficking program over the last four years.

I'm not for sensible immigration right now. We need to deport, deport, deport. But, I would likely not be there if it wasn't for Obama and Biden.

---

To your point, sensible immigration is ONLY possible once all the rot has been cleaned out.

And that is the point of these tariffs- our trade agreements and borders have been rotted out for so long you have to completely reset them.

Like building a house back up from the studs.

I am okay with the tariffs as a temporary issue, to bring trading partners back in line with reasonableness.

The WTO has been China's lackey for 3 decades now and we have to reset everything.

Much of the rot is directly attributable to chinese interference as was put on display regarding Canada's new PM amd his Chinese affiliations.

Personally I think China is aware of the fact that as DOGE and others dig deeper, the extent to which our government has been hollowed out by China will be exposed and the US will finally put a stop to it.

Then China will be forced to make a decision- make their move on Tawain and the rest of the world now or wait and possibly never get their revenge for the 100 years of shame.

Make no mistake China is the boogeyman here-

Chinese ties to Canada are being revealed, Chinese Ties to UK are being revealed, Chinese attempts to co trol the Panama canal are being revealed, Chinese attempts to control rare earth in Africa are being thwarted.

Personally I think they were banking on another few years to finish the Silk Road Project before having to confront us so I am glad this is happening now before their timeline.

---

We are generally in alignment.

But, 4/2 was a colossal mistake. Either it was a huge miscalculation of what the constituency wants, or it was a huge miscalculation on how to effectively communicate what the WH is trying to accomplish. Either way, huge mistake.

MAGA Twitter may want to keep workshopping their messaging, not sure this one's gonna carry the day:

Losing money means nothing. Digital ones and zeroes. In the end, you won't miss any of it.

Losing your country costs you everything. You will never get that back. Your kids will be slaves to foreign powers who hate us.

Without America First policies, we become slaves. Fight... pic.twitter.com/Mj3jbVvLqG

— Benny Johnson (@bennyjohnson) April 4, 2025

Thomas Sowell is not a fan of the tariffs:

Quote:

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Mr. Robinson: What do you make of the present president of the United States and his tariffs?

Thomas Sowell: It's painful to see a ruinous decision from back in the 1920s being repeated.

Now, insofar as he's using these tariffs to get very strategic things settled, he is satisfied with that. But if you set off a worldwide trade war, that has a devastating history.

Everybody loses because everybody follows suit. And all that happens is that you get a great reduction in international trade.

---

From

In an interview recorded yesterday, Hoover Senior Fellow Thomas Sowell criticizes the tariffs President Trump instituted earlier today. Watch the complete interview with Dr. Sowell on @UncKnowledge with Peter Robinson (@P_M_Robinson) on April 15th, 2025. pic.twitter.com/i0Ver1QIp4

— Hoover Institution (@HooverInst) April 3, 2025

"Losing money costs you nothing"….hahahaha!!!!!!!

Suddenly we care about character? Dear leader blatantly lies about what reciprocal tariff is but we are supposed to have character for losing because of his lack of character?