Yep - qualification for a consultant: JsABanks suit , MBA, and lives 250+ miles away.

Those numbers seem to be based on 71% occupancy. Similar to the 70 percent target for Waco. Problem in Waco is they only have about 40% occupancy. I don't suspect this project will ever see a 71% usage rate.

0% chance of 70% occupancy imho.

scd88 said:

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Would be great if the COCS took a break from being in the real estate business. Deal with Macy's first, at least.

Our money is mismanaged at this point with these ventures.

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I would like the city to be restricted from buying or building any structure of millions of dollar investment that is not needed for supplying essential services to the citizens at least until the Macy's building is either sold or fully utilized.

The location proposed for the convention center is to assist the developer and landowners of the Midtown area who are currently sitting on open property incurring property taxes w/o any sales or other revenues,

If a convention center is built, maybe the Hensel Park area would be a better location. Close to other hotels, shopping, and campus and you would get hotel guests for A&M football games and other events,

Comments on discussion of nearby competitive centers with a lot more to offer visitors,

Waco Convention Center

"Like most convention centers, the Waco Convention Center likely incurs operating losses, especially when considering the debt service payments associated with its construction and renovation. Convention centers are generally expensive to operate and don't typically generate a profit through their operational activities.
Here's why:

• High Operating Costs: Convention centers face significant expenses including utilities, maintenance, staffing, marketing, and the costs associated with attracting and hosting events.
• Competitive Market: The sheer number of convention centers nationwide creates a competitive environment, potentially requiring incentives and subsidies to attract events, which further adds to the cost and reduces the likelihood of profitability.
• Focus on Economic Impact: Despite potential operating losses, the primary justification for public investment in convention centers is the economic benefits they bring to a city, such as increased tourism, job creation, and visitor spending, which indirectly generate revenue for the local economy through taxes and other means.
• Low Occupancy Rate: The Waco Convention Center's occupancy rate has been reported as less than 40% year over year, which is significantly lower than the standard 70% occupancy rate. This low occupancy directly impacts potential revenue from facility rentals and associated services.

Recent changes
In October 2024, the City of Waco approved a plan to outsource the management and booking of the Waco Convention Center to ASM Global, a major global venue management company. This decision was made to address the low occupancy rate and the goal of maximizing revenue and enhancing the national profile of the center. The new contract includes a fixed management fee, performance-based incentives, and a percentage of food and beverage revenue for ASM Global, according to KWKT - FOX 44.
While it's expected that the Waco Convention Center will continue to focus on generating economic benefits for the city, the shift to private management with performance incentives suggests an effort to improve its financial performance and reduce reliance on taxpayer subsidies. "


And the Conroe Convention Center

"The Hyatt Regency Conroe Hotel and Convention Center is projected to experience operating profits but these profits are insufficient to cover its debt obligations, requiring the City of Conroe to supplement its existence.
Here's a breakdown of the situation

• The convention center, along with the Hyatt Regency hotel, is taxpayer-owned.
• It's expected to generate $14.7 million in revenue in 2025, but operating costs are projected at $12.6 million.
• While this leaves a profit of $2.2 million, it falls short of the $3.3 million needed to cover its 2025 debt obligations.
• Some council members have expressed concern, referring to the project as a "money pit" and highlighting that the city will likely be supplementing the hotel's existence until 2050.
• Furthermore, the city is responsible for refurbishing the hotel after eight years, an estimated $15 million cost.
• This financial strain has led to credit downgrades for the bonds issued to fund the project. "

UhOhNoAgTag said:

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Pretty sure Yancy is in favor of a convention center.

---

I am in favor of having the Aggieland Events Center.

We turn away dozens of trade shows annually for lack of a venue. We try to split trade shows into two venues to accommodate just a 2,000 attendee event, with lackluster and sometimes embarrassing results. Texas A&M generates large research and other symposiums that cannot be held in their own city. State association shows will go to Conroe or Waco or McAllen because these cities, despite being smaller or equal in size, have a multi-event facility designed for it while we do not.

We miss out on major ticketed concert events. Repeatedly. Again and again. In the home of the largest university in the nation we can't regularly host a ticketed concert event.

We miss out on car shows and boat shows and agricultural/farm equipment shows and medical equipment shows and you name it.

We miss out on family entertainment shows like Jurassic World Tour and Legoland Brickyard and Paw Patrol because we don't have a venue that will allow for ceiling rigging and vehicle entry and when we do, it's not big enough to make it worth it for the production to come here.

By not hosting such business and entertainment, the lost economic impact is enormous. The hospitality industry, hotels and restaurants take a hit. So does HOT tax and sales tax, leaving local citizens with less to do from an entertainment perspective, and more tax burden to bear.

The Local Multiplier Effect is lost for lack of a national scale venue. An outside dollar spent locally is worth 7 bucks in the city wherein in circulates. This generates further economic activity and jobs jobs jobs. Not just hospitality jobs but across the board.

A multi-events center at scale is an absolute no brainer in this community. But there are two crucial elements that'll lead to its success, or failure:

1) No one entity can go it alone. College Station can't do it alone. Nor Bryan. Nor the county. Not even Texas A&M. It will take all of us working together to make it pencil.

2) It must be managed by a private sector professional firm, such as Oak View Group or a competitor that will keep it full. 160 events per year.

Such a project will take as much cooperation as it will vision. There is no compelling reason why a community as dynamic and growing as ours is left with no multi-events center at scale. There is no reason our students and families should be missing out on the entertainment, why our university should be exporting its own events, or why our community should be getting blanked on the economic impact such a venue would bring.

So yes. I'm in favor of it, subject to #1 and #2 above.

Respectfully,

Yancy '95

We could host concerts at Reed Arena if someone would work to make that happen. There used to be concerts there in the past.

There have been concerts at Rudder Auditorium and Theater for years.

Does the city ever talk to the university about this sort of thing?

Quote:

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There is no compelling reason why a community as dynamic and growing as ours is left with no multi-events center at scale.

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I appreciate your response, but the mentality the great cost to taxpayers is not compelling speaks volumes. And its nothing we are not used to.

maroon barchetta said:

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We could host concerts at Reed Arena if someone would work to make that happen. There used to be concerts there in the past.

There have been concerts at Rudder Auditorium and Theater for years.

Does the city ever talk to the university about this sort of thing?

---

We not only talk to them, we collectively pay millions towards the Kyle Field renovation in exchange for a shared facilities access agreement. What we have discovered is that for institutional reasons and for fiscal reasons it doesn't work. Texas A&M is not a for profit entity and such a venue can run afoul of non-profit accounting rules.

It's a complex dilemma but that's the answer to your question (a good one) in round terms.

Respectfully

Yancy '95

maroon barchetta said:

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Isn't Athletics funded differently? We see articles in the sports world every year about athletic budgets and profits or losses.

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Yessir. But such a multi-events center's very success would be predicated on as much or more non-athletic events as sports. That's one of the areas where the challenge arises. As successful as George Strait was, it posed fiscal and accounting regulatory challenges for a land grant university non profit to host it.

But- the George Strait event and the soccer match are very indicative of the quality of events we COULD be hosting in a purpose built multi-events center. And more.

Respectfully

Yancy '95

Bob Yancy said:

---

UhOhNoAgTag said:

---

Pretty sure Yancy is in favor of a convention center.

---

I am in favor of having the Aggieland Events Center.

We turn away dozens of trade shows annually for lack of a venue. We try to split trade shows into two venues to accommodate just a 2,000 attendee event, with lackluster and sometimes embarrassing results. Texas A&M generates large research and other symposiums that cannot be held in their own city. State association shows will go to Conroe or Waco or McAllen because these cities, despite being smaller or equal in size, have a multi-event facility designed for it while we do not.

We miss out on major ticketed concert events. Repeatedly. Again and again. In the home of the largest university in the nation we can't regularly host a ticketed concert event.

We miss out on car shows and boat shows and agricultural/farm equipment shows and medical equipment shows and you name it.

We miss out on family entertainment shows like Jurassic World Tour and Legoland Brickyard and Paw Patrol because we don't have a venue that will allow for ceiling rigging and vehicle entry and when we do, it's not big enough to make it worth it for the production to come here.

By not hosting such business and entertainment, the lost economic impact is enormous. The hospitality industry, hotels and restaurants take a hit. So does HOT tax and sales tax, leaving local citizens with less to do from an entertainment perspective, and more tax burden to bear.

The Local Multiplier Effect is lost for lack of a national scale venue. An outside dollar spent locally is worth 7 bucks in the city wherein in circulates. This generates further economic activity and jobs jobs jobs. Not just hospitality jobs but across the board.

A multi-events center at scale is an absolute no brainer in this community. But there are two crucial elements that'll lead to its success, or failure:

1) No one entity can go it alone. College Station can't do it alone. Nor Bryan. Nor the county. Not even Texas A&M. It will take all of us working together to make it pencil.

2) It must be managed by a private sector professional firm, such as Oak View Group or a competitor that will keep it full. 160 events per year.

Such a project will take as much cooperation as it will vision. There is no compelling reason why a community as dynamic and growing as ours is left with no multi-events center at scale. There is no reason our students and families should be missing out on the entertainment, why our university should be exporting its own events, or why our community should be getting blanked on the economic impact such a venue would bring.

So yes. I'm in favor of it, subject to #1 and #2 above.

Respectfully,

Yancy '95

---

Hope you can swing it, Mr. Yancy. Ignore the anonymous online naysayers and bring us a convention center. I heard the guy in charge of Games of Texas on the news last night say the reason they keep coming back is our central location in the state. Make this happen, sir!

Bob Yancy said:

---

techno-ag said:

---

Bob Yancy said:

---

UhOhNoAgTag said:

---

Pretty sure Yancy is in favor of a convention center.

---

I am in favor of having the Aggieland Events Center.

We turn away dozens of trade shows annually for lack of a venue. We try to split trade shows into two venues to accommodate just a 2,000 attendee event, with lackluster and sometimes embarrassing results. Texas A&M generates large research and other symposiums that cannot be held in their own city. State association shows will go to Conroe or Waco or McAllen because these cities, despite being smaller or equal in size, have a multi-event facility designed for it while we do not.

We miss out on major ticketed concert events. Repeatedly. Again and again. In the home of the largest university in the nation we can't regularly host a ticketed concert event.

We miss out on car shows and boat shows and agricultural/farm equipment shows and medical equipment shows and you name it.

We miss out on family entertainment shows like Jurassic World Tour and Legoland Brickyard and Paw Patrol because we don't have a venue that will allow for ceiling rigging and vehicle entry and when we do, it's not big enough to make it worth it for the production to come here.

By not hosting such business and entertainment, the lost economic impact is enormous. The hospitality industry, hotels and restaurants take a hit. So does HOT tax and sales tax, leaving local citizens with less to do from an entertainment perspective, and more tax burden to bear.

The Local Multiplier Effect is lost for lack of a national scale venue. An outside dollar spent locally is worth 7 bucks in the city wherein in circulates. This generates further economic activity and jobs jobs jobs. Not just hospitality jobs but across the board.

A multi-events center at scale is an absolute no brainer in this community. But there are two crucial elements that'll lead to its success, or failure:

1) No one entity can go it alone. College Station can't do it alone. Nor Bryan. Nor the county. Not even Texas A&M. It will take all of us working together to make it pencil.

2) It must be managed by a private sector professional firm, such as Oak View Group or a competitor that will keep it full. 160 events per year.

Such a project will take as much cooperation as it will vision. There is no compelling reason why a community as dynamic and growing as ours is left with no multi-events center at scale. There is no reason our students and families should be missing out on the entertainment, why our university should be exporting its own events, or why our community should be getting blanked on the economic impact such a venue would bring.

So yes. I'm in favor of it, subject to #1 and #2 above.

Respectfully,

Yancy '95

---

Hope you can swing it, Mr. Yancy. Ignore the anonymous online naysayers and bring us a convention center. I heard the guy in charge of Games of Texas on the news last night say the reason they keep coming back is our central location in the state. Make this happen, sir!

---

Thanks for that. For a poster that doesn't always agree with me, I appreciate your objectivity and support on this.

Respectfully

Yancy '95

---

He doesn't live in College Station so of course he is all for it.

The university is complicated.

I have heard of depts where the faculty can no longer find spaces large enough to hold faculty meetings between 8-5. What is happening? The answer is that there is tremendous demand for locations for student events on campus. I do not think there is much opportunity for expanding the use of university facilities. And we know the root reason for this: our campus infrastructure has lagged behind the growth of the student, staff and faculty numbers.

At the same time, I am skeptical that the university can be that much of a financial partner for an outside institution. The university is woefully behind on building on-campus infrastructure for classrooms, labs, meeting rooms for student events, etc, and having to reduce parking and funding in other areas to make way for some of those things. I would honestly be a little upset if they found money to help with building a convention center when so many of our existing buildings have years/millions of dollars of deferred maintenance.

Maybe the System could be more interested than the university? The system is so focused on RELLIS these days...

> "Texas A&M generates large research and other symposiums that cannot be held in their own city."

Ooof, yes, but... I am associated with organizations that could book a convention in CS and the airport is a big problem. No one will use CS for a national conference until the airport has more than one airline, and flying to CS is often much more expensive than flying to other major cities. Many organizations calculate how cheap it is for a student with a fixed travel grant (say $500) to get from the other side of country to the conference. If travel + hotel + conference registration feel is more than $500 in total, its a no-go. I don't know if a student from El Paso could get to CS and attend a conference on a $500 subsidy.

Also, it is difficult to convince friends in other states to hold events in Texas. Particularly, there are many young scientists who are trans, and they feel safer holding events in other states. I know of an event (for science related to energy) that could have been scheduled for Austin, but they picked Atlanta instead.

There are regional conferences and student conferences, that I know are regularly held on campus, I cannot imagine they would be able to afford the city center's rate without a discount. Those organizations just don't have extra money to pay anything but the bargain rates on campus, and anyway those events are largely attended by people already in BCS.

If a convention center can pay for itself then go ahead and build one

I don't know. It annoys me because deciding arbitrarily not to have conventions in one state over another denies everyone in Texas the ability to travel affordably to an in-state national conference -- and there are many trans students and trans faculty and trans staff at institutions across Texas, including A&M.

I do not want to derail with that point, I just want to be clear that there are *headwinds* against easily holding events at College Station. Yes, a big university should draw lots of events, but the situation is complicated, and the airport and the cost of travel to CS is a big part of it. I am sure there are lots of events that might schedule a city convention center, but I am skeptical it would fulfill a need that many university researchers and staff are looking to fulfill.

At the same time, recent cuts to federal research funding are another big headwind, with some organizations openly wondering if they should scale back annual meetings to bi-annual or even just twice-a-decade.

metroid_84 said:

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The university is complicated.

I have heard of depts where the faculty can no longer find spaces large enough to hold faculty meetings between 8-5. What is happening? The answer is that there is tremendous demand for locations for student events on campus. I do not think there is much opportunity for expanding the use of university facilities. And we know the root reason for this: our campus infrastructure has lagged behind the growth of the student, staff and faculty numbers.

At the same time, I am skeptical that the university can be that much of a financial partner for an outside institution. The university is woefully behind on building on-campus infrastructure for classrooms, labs, meeting rooms for student events, etc, and having to reduce parking and funding in other areas to make way for some of those things. I would honestly be a little upset if they found money to help with building a convention center when so many of our existing buildings have years/millions of dollars of deferred maintenance.

Maybe the System could be more interested than the university? The system is so focused on RELLIS these days...

> "Texas A&M generates large research and other symposiums that cannot be held in their own city."

Ooof, yes, but... I am associated with organizations that could book a convention in CS and the airport is a big problem. No one will use CS for a national conference until the airport has more than one airline, and flying to CS is often much more expensive than flying to other major cities. Many organizations calculate how cheap it is for a student with a fixed travel grant (say $500) to get from the other side of country to the conference. If travel + hotel + conference registration feel is more than $500 in total, it's a no-go. I don't know if a student from El Paso could get to CS and attend a conference on a $500 subsidy.

Also, it is difficult to convince friends in other states to hold events in Texas. Particularly, there are many young scientists who are trans, and they feel safer holding events in other states. I know of an event (for science related to energy) that could have been scheduled for Austin, but they picked Atlanta instead.

There are regional conferences and student conferences, that I know are regularly held on campus, I cannot imagine they would be able to afford the city center's rate without a discount. Those organizations just don't have extra money to pay anything but the bargain rates on campus, and anyway those events are largely attended by people already in BCS.

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We won't be competing with the big national conferences. Those will continue to be held in places like Nashville, San Antonio, Atlanta, etc. We're going to be going after the big state conferences and maybe siphoning some off that presently go to Austin.

Bob Yancy said:

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maroon barchetta said:

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eIsn't Athletics funded differently? We see articles in the sports world every year about athletic budgets and profits or losses.

---

Yessir. But such a multi-events center's very success would be predicated on as much or more non-athletic events as sports. That's one of the areas where the challenge arises. As successful as George Strait was, it posed fiscal and accounting regulatory challenges for a land grant university non profit to host it.

But- the George Strait event and the soccer match are very indicative of the quality of events we COULD be hosting in a purpose built multi-events center. And more.

Respectfully

Yancy '95

---

I wonder why the Waco Convention Center and the Conroe one have been operating at a loss for many years and we think we can be more successful? They have a whole lot more to offer visitors and their families than we do,

Not trying to be confrontational, but wondering,

woodiewood1 said:

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Bob Yancy said:

---

maroon barchetta said:

---

eIsn't Athletics funded differently? We see articles in the sports world every year about athletic budgets and profits or losses.

---

Yessir. But such a multi-events center's very success would be predicated on as much or more non-athletic events as sports. That's one of the areas where the challenge arises. As successful as George Strait was, it posed fiscal and accounting regulatory challenges for a land grant university non profit to host it.

But- the George Strait event and the soccer match are very indicative of the quality of events we COULD be hosting in a purpose built multi-events center. And more.

Respectfully

Yancy '95

---

I wonder why the Waco Convention Center and the Conroe one have been operating at a loss for many years and we think we can be more successful? They have a whole lot more to offer visitors and their families than we do,

Not trying to be confrontational, but wondering,

---

They don't have A&M.

This city has proven to be a terrible real estate agent, can't manage property it owns, can't even figure the soils out for a ball field. But now they wanna be convention event planners. What could go wrong.

But I guess when you can do all that with taxpayer money, its fun to play real life monopoly.

Oh i forgot flood plain concert event planners.

This isn't speculative. Your consultants indicated this will waste between $415 and $460 million. Assuming they weren't overly optimistic, it would still be a 60 Macy mistake.

Bob Yancy said:

---

UhOhNoAgTag said:

---

Pretty sure Yancy is in favor of a convention center.

---

I am in favor of having the Aggieland Events Center.

We turn away dozens of trade shows annually for lack of a venue. We try to split trade shows into two venues to accommodate just a 2,000 attendee event, with lackluster and sometimes embarrassing results. Texas A&M generates large research and other symposiums that cannot be held in their own city. State association shows will go to Conroe or Waco or McAllen because these cities, despite being smaller or equal in size, have a multi-event facility designed for it while we do not.

We miss out on major ticketed concert events. Repeatedly. Again and again. In the home of the largest university in the nation we can't regularly host a ticketed concert event.

We miss out on car shows and boat shows and agricultural/farm equipment shows and medical equipment shows and you name it.

We miss out on family entertainment shows like Jurassic World Tour and Legoland Brickyard and Paw Patrol because we don't have a venue that will allow for ceiling rigging and vehicle entry and when we do, it's not big enough to make it worth it for the production to come here.

By not hosting such business and entertainment, the lost economic impact is enormous. The hospitality industry, hotels and restaurants take a hit. So does HOT tax and sales tax, leaving local citizens with less to do from an entertainment perspective, and more tax burden to bear.

The Local Multiplier Effect is lost for lack of a national scale venue. An outside dollar spent locally is worth 7 bucks in the city wherein in circulates. This generates further economic activity and jobs jobs jobs. Not just hospitality jobs but across the board.

A multi-events center at scale is an absolute no brainer in this community. But there are two crucial elements that'll lead to its success, or failure:

1) No one entity can go it alone. College Station can't do it alone. Nor Bryan. Nor the county. Not even Texas A&M. It will take all of us working together to make it pencil.

2) It must be managed by a private sector professional firm, such as Oak View Group or a competitor that will keep it full. 160 events per year.

Such a project will take as much cooperation as it will vision. There is no compelling reason why a community as dynamic and growing as ours is left with no multi-events center at scale. There is no reason our students and families should be missing out on the entertainment, why our university should be exporting its own events, or why our community should be getting blanked on the economic impact such a venue would bring.

So yes. I'm in favor of it, subject to #1 and #2 above.

Respectfully,

Yancy '95

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Yet the Waco and Conroe convention centers you reference are still not close to the projected capacity "warranting" the investment and they lose money. College Station has already been down this road before, resulting in millions of dollars wasted. What happens when it does not have 160 events a year booked? A little too late to get out at that time.

If there is such a big demand for a convention center in CS, the private sector would be falling all over themselves to build it like all the high rise dorms or on a lesser scale the increasing numbers of event and wedding venues we have.

Bob Yancy said:

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An outside dollar spent locally is worth 7 bucks in the city wherein in circulates.

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That this is the kind of idea that drives the project is telling. Like s5 e3 of Always Sunny mentality.