"What we have discovered is that for institutional reasons and for fiscal reasons it doesn't work."

Why didn't this come out in the analysis BEFORE chipping in millions?






That's was a rhetorical question. Apply the underlying logic to the convention center.

LOL! All I know is I didn't go to city government and ask the taxpayers for millions of dollars to buy any of my houses.

No offense intended l, but this is a huge ask for the taxpayers for a cavalier response (but I did at least chuckle). This city has way too many black eyes from horrible real estate ventures that lost tens of millions of dollars- and here we are being asked to trust the city government yet again, with another nudge, wink and pinky swear promise.

I can't help but think that if this is such a great opportunity, with tons of pent up demand that it will keep it filled while generating millions of dollars in revenue, why are private investors lining up out the door to finance this thing?

To be clear, my frustration is not with you, it is with the process that keeps leading to the same results.

I hear you. My concern is isn't this how all of the other "great deals" started?

Bob Yancy said:

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woodiewood1 said:

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Bob Yancy said:

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maroon barchetta said:

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eIsn't Athletics funded differently? We see articles in the sports world every year about athletic budgets and profits or losses.

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Yessir. But such a multi-events center's very success would be predicated on as much or more non-athletic events as sports. That's one of the areas where the challenge arises. As successful as George Strait was, it posed fiscal and accounting regulatory challenges for a land grant university non profit to host it.

But- the George Strait event and the soccer match are very indicative of the quality of events we COULD be hosting in a purpose built multi-events center. And more.

Respectfully

Yancy '95

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I wonder why the Waco Convention Center and the Conroe one have been operating at a loss for many years and we think we can be more successful? They have a whole lot more to offer visitors and their families than we do,

Not trying to be confrontational, but wondering,

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The Waco Convention Ctr only has 32k sq ft of exhibit space- not near enough to hold a scaled trade show. They also had the public sector managing it, which doesn't work. Just last January ASM Global took it over. Early results show the private sector is doing world's better, but it'll always be limited by size.

Respectfully

Yancy '95

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Valid points, I would like to see the city not spend a dime on a multi-million dollar building until we sell the Macy's building and use that money as seed money towards a future convention center, If the convention center ends up losing money annually, which it might, we would have another sink-hole the taxpayers have to annually cover,

You know what would provide millions of dollars to the city without having to go into debt and build an "events center" in the hopes of more HOT money coming in?

Hanging onto millions of dollars and not throwing it away on bad real estate deals.

"A penny saved is a penny earned." [/Ben Franklin, probably]

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To be fair, nobody is being asked anything yet.

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With the ballparks, we went from city leadership recognizing that voters made it clear they did not want the city to spend the boatloads of money per field:
https://texags.com/forums/35/topics/3389007/replies/65279729

And acknowledging that almost all voices were clearly not in favor of overriding that vote:
https://texags.com/forums/35/topics/3390146/replies/65475990

To today where city leadership has done a 180. They act like the bond vote never happened, never sought meaningful citizen feedback (the 2023 survey was a joke), and indicate that there will be no discussion about whether millions of taxpayer dollars are going to be wasted to ensure the Bombers get their new field.

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I know Brian will comment with the numbers again, but nobody, to my understanding, is toting the line that the city should take on this project as a sole proprietor. As Councilman Yancy mentioned, it's going to be an all-hands-on-deck project with major private partners.

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Sorry I'm using numbers. I am not sure how to say it in words alone. I do need to switch to pictures (graphs and such). I am thinking I will put the effort in when I find a more permanent place to post them.

With this project, there is no feasible partnership that is going to rescue this from being a very bad idea. If a magnanimous billionaire comes in and says "I will give CoCS $350 million dollars to build it." It would still be a waste of at least $65 million dollars. That is assuming the consultants are right about how successful this will be.

It does not look like HOT can rescue this. Just a quick spot check of HOT pages from the budgets and it looks like our net on HOT revenue minus expenditures has likely never been more than $2 million. We don't have near enough HOT money to burn to fund this thing. It will have to take cash from the general fund.

In order for this to not be stupid, it would require a combination of

• magnanimous billionaires
• spendthrift state and national grant writers
• private partners who want to throw in and don't want anything that costs tax money in return (what could that even mean?)

coming up with something like $450 million and everything being as rosy as the consultants projected. That is not happening. I have trouble believing anyone who isn't allergic to numbers legitimately thinks it is could happen.

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Having a method that is a consistent way to turn HOT funds into general funds that impact residents would be a huge benefit outside of the simple joy of attending events at the convention center.

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This is not going to convert HOT funds into general funds. This will be wasting general funds. Those funds will not come back.

And this "simple joy" sentimentalism needs to go. Wasting $415 million so my kids can go to see Paw Patrol Live or whatever is not worth it. My kids are wonderful and cute and all that good stuff. But for their sake we need leaders who don't waste resources like that. We need a vibrant and healthy city. That requires leadership that does not take taxpayers' money to waste it on goofy projects and and does not get in our way when we want to do things that are actually worthwhile.

People can move my friend. I've lived in multiple areas and I've owned property in both cities. I have a vested interest in both Bryan and College Station doing well.

And it's high time we finally had a convention center.

Brian, I am not arguing that the price tag is heavy. Nor am I making an argument that the city hasn't made blunders in the past. I think everyone completely agrees that mistakes have been made. However, there are some really great city staff trying to make a very positive difference.

Now I am a younger guy, so take my perspective with a grain of salt, that I can admit my life experience is lesser than most engaging on this platform.

My opinion will always be looking at the future and how we prepare the next generation, including your kids and many other kids. This project, if funded appropriately with minimal to no funds out of the general fund, could be a great opportunity to build for the future.

Building for the future for future's sake is ignorant and not what I am implying, but we house a tier 1 research university and a growing community that could be a phenomenal host to state or national conferences. Those people will then eat and shop here and get to experience some of the great treasures we get to experience any day we want.

I may be a bit more optimistic than most, but I also see a new fire station and the police department needing more men and women to serve. That demand isn't going anywhere, nor is water infrastructure, so my hopeful optimism comes from hoping that if a project like this was successful, we'd have the resources we need to continue having some of the best services around. Our police and fire are both incredibly accredited departments, and that costs money.

I want to build great for the future, but if the numbers come back and are wildly inflated or unrealistic for the city, I will personally be opposed, and for those on here that do know me, I will have no problem sharing those opinions very publicly.

Again, I know some will wildly disagree with me, but I will always try to be transparent in my opinion and the way I interpret things. Hearing people who care deeply and getting to listen and learn from their opinions as well grants me a different perspective than most my age will have. So Brian, I appreciate you having the numbers and a strong conviction to hold the city accountable.

techno-ag said:

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People can move my friend. I've lived in multiple areas and I've owned property in both cities. I have a vested interest in both Bryan and College Station doing well.

And it's high time we finally had a convention center.

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Will that be a check or cash?

techno-ag said:

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People can move my friend. I've lived in multiple areas and I've owned property in both cities. I have a vested interest in both Bryan and College Station doing well.

And it's high time we finally had a convention center.

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Except for the financial side of it which doesn't work.

Maybe we should work on getting Easterwood functional (ie more than one airline and more than two flights per day) so these hypothetical conventioneers can get here easily?

Don't confuse them with the facts.

Logistically, this place is a black hole.


If I'm a convention goer… I'm not flying into IAH late at night to get a rental and drive an hour and a half.

Exactly, I'm curious who the potential folks are that will be using a conference center in a tiny town like college station. It's expensive and time consuming to fly and then also rent a car to come to college station. It's just not feasible. But it doesn't matter what we think. The city council and more importantly the city manager will run rough shod across this electorate like they have done for decades. I don't blame them. There's not a check against their abject will. That should be the focus or rightfully a firing of the city manager.

Out of genuine curiosity, do you not think the university is a big enough draw to get people here for conferences?

I ask because I drove uber here for about 6 years and met people from all over the world who flew in to Easterwood or Austin/Houston who came here to be apart of a conference being held at the university or simply to visit it.

From cattle ranchers to the theoretical nuclear physicist I met a lot of cool people who all valued the hospitality and genuineness that folks around here had.

To phrase my question better, do you think once word got out that we were good host and had a few key things to do here it would widen itself up to more opportunities to host?

Or am I too nave for that to be the case?

FlyRod said:

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How common are convention centers in land grant university towns? I'm genuinely curious. Ann Arbor? Champaign-Urbana? Chapel Hill? Etc.? Is this actually a thing?

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Almost all do. Did all this headache inducing research. Tuscaloosa building the Saban Center. Athens, GA with low airline coverage and similar distance from Atlanta we are from Houston. Have expanded it repeatedly. Performing Arts, ticketed concerts, trade shows.

https://www.visitathensga.com/meetings/meeting-facilities/the-classic-center/

***AI summary: It's important to note that commercial flights into Athens, GA, are limited. If flying internationally, or from destinations not serviced by AHN, travelers often fly into Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport (ATL) and use ground transportation, such as Groome Transportation, to reach Athens.***

Respectfully

Yancy '95

FlyRod said:

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How common are convention centers in land grant university towns? I'm genuinely curious. Ann Arbor? Champaign-Urbana? Chapel Hill? Etc.? Is this actually a thing?

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https://www.raleighconvention.com/

Is 20 minutes from Raleigh Durham

Ann Arbor is 39 minutes drive from Detroit

You have to dig, and dig deep, to find a major university in the United States that doesn't have an events/convention center in town and/or inside 30 minutes away.

We're the largest university in the country by many measures, and don't.

Respectfully

Yancy '95

We also don't have a functional airport within 20-30 miles, so I appreciate you including that important detail about those other university towns.

Bob Yancy said:

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FlyRod said:

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How common are convention centers in land grant university towns? I'm genuinely curious. Ann Arbor? Champaign-Urbana? Chapel Hill? Etc.? Is this actually a thing?

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https://www.raleighconvention.com/

Is 20 minutes from Raleigh Durham

Ann Arbor is 39 minutes drive from Detroit

You have to dig, and dig deep, to find a major university in the United States that doesn't have an events/convention center in town and/or inside 30 minutes away.

We're the largest university in the country by many measures, and don't.

Respectfully

Yancy '95

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State College PA. Home of Penn State University.

There is a very good argument that the two universities are very similar in terms of size and geographic locations.

But CoCS doesn't make decisions based on voter feedback. They just throw money out like they have a paper route.

I admittedly don't have a dog in this hunt. It's not my tax money being spent here (at least until COB decides to pony some up).

But I think the heart of the matter is the track record of the CoCS making these decisions. So far they seem to be batting 0.000 with basically no one on staff or council seeing to want to address that particular issue. Every one they have made has been a bust monetarily and it's not been close. And it's not like it's been one. It's been a string of bad decisions going back a long while.

I get it. I wouldn't want to have to talk about my mistakes either. But at some point you will need to give some really good reasons why this time will be different.

Marlin39m said:

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The Hilton already hosts many conferences every year. I don't think a convention center here will be able to compete with what is already set up, with the added bonus of beds on sight.

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Every conference I have attended has had a hotel attached or right next door and that makes a big difference. People don't want to wake up and have to drive and maybe pay to park at the conference when they could easily walk from their room to the conference and expo without leaving the building

maroon barchetta said:

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Marlin39m said:

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The Hilton already hosts many conferences every year. I don't think a convention center here will be able to compete with what is already set up, with the added bonus of beds on sight.

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Every conference I have attended has had a hotel attached or right next door and that makes a big difference. People don't want to wake up and have to drive and maybe pay to park at the conference when they could easily walk from their room to the conference and expo without leaving the building

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Agreed 100%.

Respectfully

Yancy '95

Bob Yancy said:

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maroon barchetta said:

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But CoCS doesn't make decisions based on voter feedback. They just throw money out like they have a paper route.

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As one member of council, I can't move forward with something like this using taxpayer funds without going to the voters.

Respectfully,

Yancy '95

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If the rest of council can just communicate that to their boss, the city manager, it would help.

Zero percent chance of this passing a bond election.

Which is why the voters will have no input

What some of you are not accounting for is that 87% of the Texas population is within 3 hours of College Station. You can have a state convention in the Triangle of Texas, and the majority of your attendees are just a morning drive away.

I think plenty of Texas are willing to drive a few hours to go to a convention. Flying to another city to go to a convention takes 3 hours by the time you drive to the airport, leave your car, fly to the next city, rent a car, drive to you hotel/convention center. Yup, that is at least 3 hours.

I personally have driven to conferences in San Antonio, Austin, and the D/FW area and the drive didn't make a difference to me. But I've lived in Texas all my life...we're used to driving. It's a big freakin state...but yet 87% of Texans live with 3 hours of here. Isn't that wild that 27 million people live within 3 hours of B/CS??

It's funny how some are saying...who would drive to CS? It's so hard to get here! It's so expensive to fly in!! Pretty sure on a hot summer day in 1 month, at least 85K people will show up to watch a football game against UTSA, and then again the next weekend for another non-conference game.

Ever think that part of the reason we have so many fans come to all of our games, rain or shine, crappy season and all, is because our game is less than a 3 hour drive? I think it has a lot to do with it, plus we're all a bunch of die-hard sunshine pumpers. But our location is very ideal and probably the most accessible university in all of Texas