PS3D said:

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Bob Yancy said:

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PS: as a courtesy, and/or if you guys want to opine on specific personnel matters, before you do- call them. Tell them what you think. Us on council too. Send an email. You could even start a thread here and talk it out. But I'm asking to please refrain from naming and criticizing staff or council members on threads I'm on. Of course, you don't have to. But I'm asking.

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Criticizing elected officials is what makes democracy work, or at least democracy as this country accepts it, and that's what separates public discourse rather than a glorified PR page. The "glorified PR page" reminds me of the Wolf Pen Creek amphitheater page, where all the suggestions (including questioning issues of design) were simply ignored when presented to the council. It gave the air that this was all pointless theater, and deservedly or not, harmed Mr. Yancy's reputation and trustworthiness.

Crying about anonymity is fairly pointless, if there was ever a real problem (actionable threats that involve the police, or something needed for a legitimate court case) TexAgs will flip on IP addresses, phone number, and email.

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As I recall that's the second time you've stated the inputs on this platform regarding WPC were ignored. That's not true. All of the inputs regarding backstage access and power and lighting and rigging and all of it were noted. We haven't even approved any plan for WPC. We've just begun discussions with an outside group interested in investing in some or all of those improvements. We haven't finalized our capital investments or anything. We have some concept drawings from a private group and from our parks department. They are very similar. Not identical but similar.

I asked for thoughts and inputs because I want to hear them.

PS: We had a spectacular 4th event at WPC and a fantastic kickoff to the Games of Texas just yesterday. Despite its flaws, WPC is a wonderful asset to the community.

Respectfully

Yancy '95

Respectfully, you aren't going to get 8000 paying attendees to an outside venue not named Kyle Field between June and October.

harrierdoc said:

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Respectfully, you aren't going to get 8000 paying attendees to an outside venue not named Kyle Field between June and October.

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I mean, if George Strait played WPC….

doubledog said:

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Bob Orlando is a bad comparison. Orlando has a major airport, Disneyland etc... We have football, no interstate and a poor airport.

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Then how did all those people get here for the largest ticketed concert in United States history? Orlando doesn't hold that record. We do.

My week is kicking off. I have to go guys. I'll say one thing, many of you are very consistent.

Respectfully,

Yancy '95

Bob Yancy said:

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doubledog said:

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Bob Orlando is a bad comparison. Orlando has a major airport, Disneyland etc... We have football, no interstate and a poor airport.

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Then how did all those people get here for the largest ticketed concert in United States history? Orlando doesn't hold that record. We do.

My week is kicking off. I have to go guys. I'll say one thing, many of you are very consistent.

Respectfully,

Yancy '95

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They drove to see an icon at an iconic venue. That's not what we are going to get at a revamped WPC or convention center.

I think the point of the poster above that asked about ticket prices wasn't to ask how much money could be made, it was how many people would still show if they had to pay anything.

Don't get me wrong, I am not 100% against these type of investments by the city, but there needs to be a clear path to ROI.

Bob Yancy said:

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maroon barchetta said:

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Yes. You had yet another free event at WPC that was well attended and enjoyed.

What's the projected attendance at $10-$20 per ticket? That's what was discussed before. Ticketed concerts.

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6,800 people at the 4th. Had they been charged $15 per ticket, that's $102k. But notably, WPC is a public good. That's what municipalities are predicated on. It's not all about making money.

But I've looked at some other numbers, too. Capacity at WPC is 8,000. It's an intimate setting. That is to say, everyone is relatively close in. Looking at Cojo tickets, they'd all be a minimum of $250 on average. That's a $2m booking for a sold out crowd. The artist keeps 90% of the gate, after expenses. I'd say that's enough to draw some serious talent, and also eloquent testimony as to why the private booking firm wants to invest in WPC in exchange for a set number of nights per year. Considering this, WPC could be expanded, too. The numbers go up from there.

But presume for a moment it's not expanded. Presume that concert is scheduled on a Friday night before an Aggie game. Or the same night of a morning football game. That's 8,000 humans that, instead of driving back to Houston or Dallas after the game, stay in a hotel locally. They eat here. Multiple times. They make a weekend of it.

These are the quality of life investments that serve a public purpose, like free concerts and firework shows, but also stimulate the local economy in a demonstrable way when ticketed entertainment is booked.

We have a done a poor job monetizing our assets for our citizens QOL and our local economy. That's been the story since I got here after the Air Force in '89. As long as I'm on council I'll continue to research, seek input and if it pencils, pursue such ideas.

But we're not on the WPC thread and the moderators will likely strike this, so….

Respectfully

Yancy '95

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Might I suggest that our fine City focus 100% on cleaning up the Macy's debacle before entering upon another speculative endeavor.
As was discussed in an earlier topic trust has got to be earned and after being lost is hard to get back.

Bob Yancy said:

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doubledog said:

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Bob Orlando is a bad comparison. Orlando has a major airport, Disneyland etc... We have football, no interstate and a poor airport.

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Then how did all those people get here for the largest ticketed concert in United States history? Orlando doesn't hold that record. We do.

My week is kicking off. I have to go guys. I'll say one thing, many of you are very consistent.

Respectfully,

Yancy '95

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They drove here to see George Strait to set a record. Just like they would do if Garth Brooks were to come to Kyle field. Possibly even to see The Rolling Stones or AC/DC if they came to Kyle. A one off historic event but not a regular event. Because those bands just don't come here and it's got nothing to do with a convention center.

Now scratch that concert off your list and tell about the 2nd, 3rd and 4th most attended concerts in town.

Comparing us to Orlando is just such a strange comp.

We are State College PA. Bigger but that's really only a recent thing. A very large R1 university that isn't in a massive or even very large metro area with regional level transportation. That's not a bad thing.

As frustrating as the macys debacle is we still need to be able to walk and chew gum at the same time. It's easy to relegate all this to an oversimplification but it's not realistic.

Bob Yancy said:

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doubledog said:

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Bob Orlando is a bad comparison. Orlando has a major airport, Disneyland etc... We have football, no interstate and a poor airport.

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Then how did all those people get here for the largest ticketed concert in United States history? Orlando doesn't hold that record. We do.

My week is kicking off. I have to go guys. I'll say one thing, many of you are very consistent.

Respectfully,

Yancy '95

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You are also consistent.

Bringing up a once-in-a-lifetime event, hosted on a university campus, by a legend with very few concerts left in him, and somehow thinking that is relevant to WPC and the acts it could attract.

I would quote Andy Dufresne talking to the warden, but humor is lost on this board.

australopithecus robustus said:

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As frustrating as the macys debacle is we still need to be able to walk and chew gum at the same time. It's easy to relegate all this to an oversimplification but it's not realistic.

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I absolutely agree that we need to be able to. But I don't think we can.

maroon barchetta said:

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Bob Yancy said:

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doubledog said:

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Bob Orlando is a bad comparison. Orlando has a major airport, Disneyland etc... We have football, no interstate and a poor airport.

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Then how did all those people get here for the largest ticketed concert in United States history? Orlando doesn't hold that record. We do.

My week is kicking off. I have to go guys. I'll say one thing, many of you are very consistent.

Respectfully,

Yancy '95

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You are also consistent.

Bringing up a once-in-a-lifetime event, hosted on a university campus, by a legend with very few concerts left in him, and somehow thinking that is relevant to WPC and the acts it could attract.

I would quote Andy Dufresne talking to the warden, but humor is lost on this board.

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I agree. City Council members using logic fallacies and anecdotal evidence to advance their agenda just should not happen and we need to expect more.

You are consistent with your push/desire to want concerts here, and when you originally asked about this what seemed like a year ago, you were presented with facts as to why it is impossible to get big acts here... did you forget about that? Or are you just ignoring hoping no one else Will remember it.

I admire you for posting here and originally thought you were different and wanted to.do the right things for the right reasons. But this convention center infatuation of yours appears to be showing you as the "same old same old" that a particular block of voters keep voting in.

Please disabuse of this perception

91_Aggie said:

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maroon barchetta said:

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Bob Yancy said:

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doubledog said:

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Bob Orlando is a bad comparison. Orlando has a major airport, Disneyland etc... We have football, no interstate and a poor airport.

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Then how did all those people get here for the largest ticketed concert in United States history? Orlando doesn't hold that record. We do.

My week is kicking off. I have to go guys. I'll say one thing, many of you are very consistent.

Respectfully,

Yancy '95

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You are also consistent.

Bringing up a once-in-a-lifetime event, hosted on a university campus, by a legend with very few concerts left in him, and somehow thinking that is relevant to WPC and the acts it could attract.

I would quote Andy Dufresne talking to the warden, but humor is lost on this board.

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I agree. City Council members using logic fallacies and anecdotal evidence to advance their agenda just should not happen and we need to expect more.

You are consistent with your push/desire to want concerts here, and when you originally asked about this what seemed like a year ago, you were presented with facts as to why it is impossible to get big acts here... did you forget about that? Or are you just ignoring hoping no one else Will remember it.

I admire you for posting here and originally thought you were different and wanted to.do the right things for the right reasons. But this convention center infatuation of yours appears to be showing you as the "same old same old" that a particular block of voters keep voting in.

Please disabuse of this perception

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Agreed, I don't like the way this is being sold at all. I also don't like my account being flagged and being banned, but I am back. That being said, I do want more things to do in this town. If there is a private entity that wants to shell out money to revitalize WPC and make it a music venue, I'm cool with that. Just don't use taxpayer money to do so.

Since Bob brought it up, why in the hell don't we just use Kyle Field for more concerts? Why don't we use Reed Arena for more concerts? Why don't we use the enormous resources of Texas A&M to not only benefit its students but also the cities surrounding it? They have the venues already. We never use them to capacity. Why? Kyle Field is used, what, six-seven times a year? Say you are a national band, like Metallica, and a venue was available that was the largest in North America, why wouldn't you play there?

Perhaps along with the council's efforts to bring about a tiny amphitheater that likely will only bring in Texas country local bands with the occasional maybe headliner maybe once a year, maybe. Perhaps we could unlock the single largest venue in the entire nation? Just maybe?

91_Aggie said:

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maroon barchetta said:

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Bob Yancy said:

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doubledog said:

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Bob Orlando is a bad comparison. Orlando has a major airport, Disneyland etc... We have football, no interstate and a poor airport.

---

Then how did all those people get here for the largest ticketed concert in United States history? Orlando doesn't hold that record. We do.

My week is kicking off. I have to go guys. I'll say one thing, many of you are very consistent.

Respectfully,

Yancy '95

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You are also consistent.

Bringing up a once-in-a-lifetime event, hosted on a university campus, by a legend with very few concerts left in him, and somehow thinking that is relevant to WPC and the acts it could attract.

I would quote Andy Dufresne talking to the warden, but humor is lost on this board.

---

I agree. City Council members using logic fallacies and anecdotal evidence to advance their agenda just should not happen and we need to expect more.

You are consistent with your push/desire to want concerts here, and when you originally asked about this what seemed like a year ago, you were presented with facts as to why it is impossible to get big acts here... did you forget about that? Or are you just ignoring hoping no one else Will remember it.

I admire you for posting here and originally thought you were different and wanted to.do the right things for the right reasons. But this convention center infatuation of yours appears to be showing you as the "same old same old" that a particular block of voters keep voting in.

Please disabuse of this perception

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I guess I'd offer that the largest ticketed concert in U.S. history is not an anecdote, but rather a crucial data point. Strait and the soccer match prove, I believe irrefutably, that our airport and highway limitations are not enough of a hindrance to keep people from getting here to see entertainment they want to see.

Our location is inside the Texas Triangle. Just as we have no problem driving to Cynthia Woods Mitchell Pavilion for a concert we want to see, so too will folks in Houston, Austin, Dallas, Waco, et al drive here. We aren't just in a decent location. We're central to the Texas Triangle- the largest and fastest growing megalopolis in the United States. I urge you to look at that and research what it really means.

If people completely voluntarily come here for entertainment, and we now know they will, why wouldn't they come here for all of the above? Family entertainment. Concerts. Trade shows. Boat shows. Car shows. Medical equipment. Agriculture exhibitions. University research symposiums? And of course, Sports.

A review of the cell phone data from the friendly international soccer match shows an unbelievably diverse list of countries registries in attendance. I forget the number but I'll go back and look. Dozens of countries.

What this boils down to is "do you want to be a destination?" Not, "can we be a destination."

Now maybe the citizens answer to that first question is "no." Maybe folks don't want to embrace growth in housing, commerce, jobs, tourism.

But that position is wrought with circumstances too. For years, the city of Austin embraced a philosophy now nicknamed "don't build it and they won't come." Rather than see growth as a blessing, they saw it as a curse. They wanted to freeze in stasis their 'big city with a midsized town feel' the way some among us pine for yesteryear in this community.

But Austin paid a terrible price for that philosophy. In housing costs. In traffic. In quality of life. They said "no" a lot and dissuaded development and growth via fees and a regulatory regime that pushed everything outward. They didn't want to be a destination.

The reverberative effects of those policies impact them negatively to this day. I urge you all to research that. You'll quickly see why Austin offers a cautionary tale that others want to avoid. Ultimately, growth won in Austin. They couldn't stop it. And neither can we. In a market based economy, growth is immutable.

My overarching philosophy is that growth is a blessing and the best we can hope to do is grow smart. Whether it's housing, jobs, economic development or tourism we have to be smart. We can do some things alone, but most we cannot. We need each other. Tamu, Tamus, Bryan, Brazos County and College Station- and the business community writ large.

We have an opportunity to be an even more impressive community than we already are. That takes vision. Cooperative vision.

Maybe it's a championship ball field. An updated amphitheater. Better programming and event promotion and utilization of our assets. More housing closer in to mitigate traffic. A powerhouse multi-event center that is jointly funded by the aforementioned and the private sector- that entertains locals and visitors alike.

Maybe some of those things never get off the ground, or don't manifest for another decade.

But we are growing. And we're leaving things and opportunities on the table and leaving people behind as we do. That has to change.

My $.02 and Respectfully

Yancy '95

Read this book:

https://news.rice.edu/news/2021/deep-heart-texas-triangle-global-powerhouse-emerges

And these pieces…

https://www.kvue.com/article/news/local/boomtown-yesterday-dont-build-it-and-they-wont-come-mentality-pricing-austinites-out/269-492526666

https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2019/1/9/growth-and-the-fallacy-of-control

Quote:

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I guess I'd offer that the largest ticketed concert in U.S. history is not an anecdote, but rather a crucial data point. Strait and the soccer match prove, I believe irrefutably, that our airport and highway limitations are not enough of a hindrance to keep people from getting here to see entertainment they want to see.

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Ah yes, using the "if we repeat it enough it will become true in their minds" tactic.

They are not datapoints.

But let's say they are.

Two datapoints? That's all you need to end up committing big tax money to a project that citizens will pay for over a decade or more?

And why are you trumpeting those two datapoints? Besides providing the usual services CoCS would commit to a home football game (police, fire, EMS, parking and traffic enforcement), what other skin did CoCS have in the game?

Was it the idea of the city to schedule a concert and a soccer game in a stadium they don't own? Did someone with the city negotiate all the financials with The King and the soccer folks?

It appears you are having the city take credit for something TAMU arranged, unless you can prove otherwise.

It gives the appearance of coattail riding.

Yet when Macy's was discussed, you threw TAMU under the bus with thinly veiled blame that the Macy's deal failed because they backed out of a deal that wasn't inked on any paper.

It's not just the airport/highways/taxes/ability to get top acts here that have people naysaying. It's the repeated examples of CoCS not being able to break even on a real estate deal.

We don't trust the city to not find a way to lose money.

Nobody locally is going to do investigative reporting and ruffle feathers here.

There used to be a guy with The Eagle that did that. That was 12-15 years ago. No longer.

I see Macys and other blunder projects used as counter arguments for future projects and I understand and get that the past has hurt the trust with the future. I think everyone on this forum gets it.

However, are you all so against these projects that you're not even willing to be patient enough to hear what the actual proposed plan will be? Are you so upset about the past that you're not even going to tolerate a simple idea?

There's been absolutely no real numbers proposed yet, none, not a single one.

Theres been estimates from consultants and ball park figures, but Bob himself has mentioned several times that this would take private investors (WPC) or partners (convention center). So where is the outrage coming from? Simply the idea that the city can't handle a new project? That the blunders from the past will dictate the outcome of the future?

I will be and will continue to be deeply against using major tax dollars on a convention center and until real numbers are presented for WPC it's hard to take any stance.

I'm not trying to call anyone out or fan the flames, but simply to say are you really that satisfied with the status quo of amenities in the city? I deeply understand the hesitation about the city's ability to conduct future projects because of past experiences, but some of the staff there deeply care and want this city to succeed.

If you're satisfied and want no change then I'll hush, but as the young guy looking towards the future of what your kids will get to grow up and enjoy I simply want more for them. I want it done right and I don't want any of your hard earned money wasted, but I want more for you and your family. I want to hunt down private partners who will get the job done well and provide things, but even successes like century square wouldn't have been possible without a partnership with the university. It's going to take partnerships and collaboration to build for the future.

I don't want your tax dollars waisted, but I do want to find investments that are executed well to build for the future and you know I don't think that's an awful thing to want.

Valen said:

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I see Macys and other blunder projects used as counter arguments for future projects and I understand and get that the past has hurt the trust with the future. I think everyone on this forum gets it.

However, are you all so against these projects that you're not even willing to be patient enough to hear what the actual proposed plan will be? Are you so upset about the past that you're not even going to tolerate a simple idea?

There's been absolutely no real numbers proposed yet, none, not a single one.

Theres been estimates from consultants and ball park figures, but Bob himself has mentioned several times that this would take private investors (WPC) or partners (convention center). So where is the outrage coming from? Simply the idea that the city can't handle a new project? That the blunders from the past will dictate the outcome of the future?

I will be and will continue to be deeply against using major tax dollars on a convention center and until real numbers are presented for WPC it's hard to take any stance.

I'm not trying to call anyone out or fan the flames, but simply to say are you really that satisfied with the status quo of amenities in the city? I deeply understand the hesitation about the city's ability to conduct future projects because of past experiences, but some of the staff there deeply care and want this city to succeed.

If you're satisfied and want no change then I'll hush, but as the young guy looking towards the future of what your kids will get to grow up and enjoy I simply want more for them. I want it done right and I don't want any of your hard earned money wasted, but I want more for you and your family. I want to hunt down private partners who will get the job done well and provide things, but even successes like century square wouldn't have been possible without a partnership with the university. It's going to take partnerships and collaboration to build for the future.

I don't want your tax dollars waisted, but I do want to find investments that are executed well to build for the future and you know I don't think that's an awful thing to want.

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Here, here. I'm down for hearing more. I would like different leadership at the top. I think we all do, including Bob. I also desperately want more stuff to do in this town. It is growing rapidly and can support a lot of different options. There is a right way to do this. Am I believer in the current heads to be able to chart that path? No, but that doesn't mean I don't want the idea for new entertainment options to succeed. It can be done well. There is a way. Please find it or I'm afraid this town will get left in the dust and will simply be a doormat for A&M. The two can grow and succeed together. It is possible.

Quote:

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However, are you all so against these projects that you're not even willing to be patient enough to hear what the actual proposed plan will be? Are you so upset about the past that you're not even going to tolerate a simple idea?

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It's not the past if the people responsible are still pulling the strings. And show no remorse. And disregard a sitting councilman's requests for info to the point that a TexAgger has to make a FOIA request to get answers.

We have been over this. All we get is side-stepping and "yeah, that was bad, but I wasn't involved, and OH LOOK! A NEW SHINY IDEA! LET'S TALK ABOUT THAT INSTEAD!"

Richleau12 said:

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Here, here. I'm down for hearing more. I would like different leadership at the top. I think we all do, including Bob.

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Single. Member. Districts.