maroon barchetta said:

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Aggie_Fire said:

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What some of you are not accounting for is that 87% of the Texas population is within 3 hours of College Station. You can have a state convention in the Triangle of Texas, and the majority of your attendees are just a morning drive away.

I think plenty of Texas are willing to drive a few hours to go to a convention. Flying to another city to go to a convention takes 3 hours by the time you drive to the airport, leave your car, fly to the next city, rent a car, drive to you hotel/convention center. Yup, that is at least 3 hours.

I personally have driven to conferences in San Antonio, Austin, and the D/FW area and the drive didn't make a difference to me. But I've lived in Texas all my life...we're used to driving. It's a big freakin state...but yet 87% of Texans live with 3 hours of here. Isn't that wild that 27 million people live within 3 hours of B/CS??

It's funny how some are saying...who would drive to CS? It's so hard to get here! It's so expensive to fly in!! Pretty sure on a hot summer day in 1 month, at least 85K people will show up to watch a football game against UTSA, and then again the next weekend for another non-conference game.

Ever think that part of the reason we have so many fans come to all of our games, rain or shine, crappy season and all, is because our game is less than a 3 hour drive? I think it has a lot to do with it, plus we're all a bunch of die-hard sunshine pumpers. But our location is very ideal and probably the most accessible university in all of Texas

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7 weekends in the Fall =/= 160 events per year, as the councilman projected.

Come back with a fair comparison.

And Aggie football games are leisure events. For fun. To see friends and family. To relive your college days a little bit.

Conferences and conventions are usually for work. If all we want are Texas-centric conventions, sure, we could maybe get a few.

National conventions? Forget it. The logistics of travel don't allow for it.

---

Please remember ticketed concerts, boat shows, car shows, alternative sporting events, et al. Conventions are a huge part of it, but by no means all.

Respectfully

Yancy '95

Bob Yancy said:

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maroon barchetta said:

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Aggie_Fire said:

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What some of you are not accounting for is that 87% of the Texas population is within 3 hours of College Station. You can have a state convention in the Triangle of Texas, and the majority of your attendees are just a morning drive away.

I think plenty of Texas are willing to drive a few hours to go to a convention. Flying to another city to go to a convention takes 3 hours by the time you drive to the airport, leave your car, fly to the next city, rent a car, drive to you hotel/convention center. Yup, that is at least 3 hours.

I personally have driven to conferences in San Antonio, Austin, and the D/FW area and the drive didn't make a difference to me. But I've lived in Texas all my life...we're used to driving. It's a big freakin state...but yet 87% of Texans live with 3 hours of here. Isn't that wild that 27 million people live within 3 hours of B/CS??

It's funny how some are saying...who would drive to CS? It's so hard to get here! It's so expensive to fly in!! Pretty sure on a hot summer day in 1 month, at least 85K people will show up to watch a football game against UTSA, and then again the next weekend for another non-conference game.

Ever think that part of the reason we have so many fans come to all of our games, rain or shine, crappy season and all, is because our game is less than a 3 hour drive? I think it has a lot to do with it, plus we're all a bunch of die-hard sunshine pumpers. But our location is very ideal and probably the most accessible university in all of Texas

---

7 weekends in the Fall =/= 160 events per year, as the councilman projected.

Come back with a fair comparison.

And Aggie football games are leisure events. For fun. To see friends and family. To relive your college days a little bit.

Conferences and conventions are usually for work. If all we want are Texas-centric conventions, sure, we could maybe get a few.

National conventions? Forget it. The logistics of travel don't allow for it.

---

Please remember ticketed concerts, boat shows, car shows, alternative sporting events, et al. Conventions are a huge part of it, but by no means all.

Respectfully

Yancy '95

---

Boat shows. In an area with few options for using your boat.

Are we going to discuss the topic of concerts and artists not being contractually allowed to perform within a certain radius of other cities/venues like Houston/Austin that has been discussed here in the past, which is said to be a roadblock for bringing in big names?

Thus far there is no proof that this idea will result in anything besides losing money year after year.

We just watched the 2022 transportation bond election and the ego attached to "knowing what's best" lead to what at best has been a waste of millions of dollars by the county. COCS has a long and consistent history of making horrible "investments " when it comes to venues, etc. Only hubris leads this discussion forward from here IMHO. Without it, reasonable minds would turn away. Hubris believes "we will do better this time " when the spreadsheet of history says you won't.

To reach a 71% usage rate as the report suggested this new facility would need to full 260 days a year. This seems more unlikely than me winning the lottery.

Could this fill up 80-100 days a year? Maybe.

Are the consultants projecting new convention business or shifting that business from existing cities with no interstate or airport to College Station?

If it is shifting business what cities are they coming from and how are those existing conference centers doing on keeping near a 70% usage rate?

This seems like a pipe dream. Even at 70% occupancy rate is a large money pit but 35-40% seems more likely.

Bob Yancy said:

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maroon barchetta said:

---

Aggie_Fire said:

---

What some of you are not accounting for is that 87% of the Texas population is within 3 hours of College Station. You can have a state convention in the Triangle of Texas, and the majority of your attendees are just a morning drive away.

I think plenty of Texas are willing to drive a few hours to go to a convention. Flying to another city to go to a convention takes 3 hours by the time you drive to the airport, leave your car, fly to the next city, rent a car, drive to you hotel/convention center. Yup, that is at least 3 hours.

I personally have driven to conferences in San Antonio, Austin, and the D/FW area and the drive didn't make a difference to me. But I've lived in Texas all my life...we're used to driving. It's a big freakin state...but yet 87% of Texans live with 3 hours of here. Isn't that wild that 27 million people live within 3 hours of B/CS??

It's funny how some are saying...who would drive to CS? It's so hard to get here! It's so expensive to fly in!! Pretty sure on a hot summer day in 1 month, at least 85K people will show up to watch a football game against UTSA, and then again the next weekend for another non-conference game.

Ever think that part of the reason we have so many fans come to all of our games, rain or shine, crappy season and all, is because our game is less than a 3 hour drive? I think it has a lot to do with it, plus we're all a bunch of die-hard sunshine pumpers. But our location is very ideal and probably the most accessible university in all of Texas

---

7 weekends in the Fall =/= 160 events per year, as the councilman projected.

Come back with a fair comparison.

And Aggie football games are leisure events. For fun. To see friends and family. To relive your college days a little bit.

Conferences and conventions are usually for work. If all we want are Texas-centric conventions, sure, we could maybe get a few.

National conventions? Forget it. The logistics of travel don't allow for it.

---

Please remember ticketed concerts, boat shows, car shows, alternative sporting events, et al. Conventions are a huge part of it, but by no means all.

Respectfully

Yancy '95

---

Boat shows in a town that no longer has a single Boat dealership?

Yancy I plead with you. Please vote to leave this business to the private sector.

Boozer92 said:

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To reach a 71% usage rate as the report suggested this new facility would need to full 260 days a year. This seems more unlikely than me winning the lottery.

Could this fill up 80-100 days a year? Maybe.

Are the consultants projecting new convention business or shifting that business from existing cities with no interstate or airport to College Station?

If it is shifting business what cities are they coming from and how are those existing conference centers doing on keeping near a 70% usage rate?

This seems like a pipe dream. Even at 70% occupancy rate is a large money pit but 35-40% seems more likely.

---

I think that even 80 to 100 profitable days a year is very optimistic,

My thoughts would be one to two weekends a month that are profitable (around 50 days a year) and then more times that don't cover the operating cost and debt service,

I bet you could count on one hand the number of a convention centers in Texas that have a 70% occ rate,

Also, if a hotel is connected, there will be many months that the occ of it would be way less than 70%,

There currently is 90 convention centers in Texas with most operating at a loss,

"But the sheer number of convention centers has made the market highly competitive, putting pressure on these venues to expand and add the latest innovations to attract events. In Texas and elsewhere, state and local governments have responded by increasing incentives and subsidies for the construction, renovation and maintenance of convention centers and their surrounding hotels and infrastructure.
These incentives can be controversial, though. Convention centers are highly expensive operations, and most don't make a profit particularly when considering the debt service payments involved in their construction. Private investors are reluctant to invest in such uncertain ventures, which leaves the tab with taxpayers. Advocates of convention centers argue that these operating losses are more than compensated by added jobs, investment and economic activity produced by visitor spending.
According to the Governor's Economic Development and Tourism office, Texas is home to more than 90 convention centers;

Most, however, do not cover their operating costs, and competition among them has risen sharply. "

Paying for Texas Convention Centers

So, in my industry, we have numerous (think hundreds) of conventions a year. The large national ones are in places like Las Vegas, San Francisco, LA, New York, etc. There are smaller regional ones in places like New Orleans, Houston, Dallas, etc.

I don't imagine that many industries are clamoring to host conventions in "off the beaten path" places like College Station.

Similar to your industry, the industry I work in has big national conventions in "destination" cities that have what you need for that sort of thing, which means a good airport close by and a hotel/convention/conference center.

There are numerous smaller regional conferences and conventions around the country. They, too, are in cities with convenient access to a good airport.

We aren't poaching any sizable conventions when everyone from out of state has to fly to Dallas and then fly American into Easterwood. That is possibly going to limit what airlines they can take to Dallas and certainly add cost for the connection to CLL unless they want to take red eye flights with long layovers to save money.

As for ticketed musical acts, we need that topic revisited about how it would be difficult to get larger names here due to the proximity to Houston and Austin. It was maybe Elite Electric or Tim Weaver that shared knowledge in that topic. It is an important consideration if still valid.

Bob Yancy said:

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Brian Alg said:

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Bob Yancy said:

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maroon barchetta said:

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But CoCS doesn't make decisions based on voter feedback. They just throw money out like they have a paper route.

---

As one member of council, I can't move forward with something like this using taxpayer funds without going to the voters.

Respectfully,

Yancy '95

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If voters were not in favor of the city spending $20 million on the three fields in Veterans, would you want to know?

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Yessir. But no one except a handful on this platform, including yourself, was against it. The baseball fields were different in that a prior council made the decision, reportedly after robust citizen engagement and told the world yes, we are building baseball fields- then the soils issue happened and concurrently, citizens vote no to 4 additional baseball fields.

I think the lesson there was plain though. On discretionary quality of life project the citizens should always be asked. Perhaps on all major capital projects they should- discretionary or infrastructure. The challenge with that is timing of elections. Another issue, though.

Respectfully

Bob Yancy '95

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Bolded is categorically false no matter how many times it is repeated. Sorry just intellectually dishonest. There are many people who don't even know what Texags is that are vehemently against it.

How did the feasibility study miss the soils issue? Not blaming you, just curious.

Negativity is highly amplified on this forum. It only takes 5 or 6 highly critical people to make some scathing remarks, and they'll all blue star one another and pretty soon it looks like the whole town is against something.

Kudos to Mr. Yancy for taking reasonable proposals to anonymous message boards and answering questions from the public without getting emotional. It takes a lot to do that, especially when it can feel like the whole town is coming at you with torches and pitchforks.

They're not. It's just local social media and keyboard warriors.

Let's go convention center!

techno-ag said:

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Negativity is highly amplified on this forum. It only takes 5 or 6 highly critical people to make some scathing remarks, and they'll all blue star one another and pretty soon it looks like the whole town is against something.

Kudos to Mr. Yancy for taking reasonable proposals to anonymous message boards and answering questions from the public without getting emotional. It takes a lot to do that, especially when it can feel like the whole town is coming at you with torches and pitchforks.

They're not. It's just local social media and keyboard warriors.

Let's go convention center!

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Put it to a vote.

EliteElectric said:

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Bob Yancy said:

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Brian Alg said:

---

Bob Yancy said:

---

maroon barchetta said:

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But CoCS doesn't make decisions based on voter feedback. They just throw money out like they have a paper route.

---

As one member of council, I can't move forward with something like this using taxpayer funds without going to the voters.

Respectfully,

Yancy '95

---

If voters were not in favor of the city spending $20 million on the three fields in Veterans, would you want to know?

---

Yessir. But no one except a handful on this platform, including yourself, was against it. The baseball fields were different in that a prior council made the decision, reportedly after robust citizen engagement and told the world yes, we are building baseball fields- then the soils issue happened and concurrently, citizens vote no to 4 additional baseball fields.

I think the lesson there was plain though. On discretionary quality of life project the citizens should always be asked. Perhaps on all major capital projects they should- discretionary or infrastructure. The challenge with that is timing of elections. Another issue, though.

Respectfully

Bob Yancy '95

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Bolded is categorically false no matter how many times it is repeated. Sorry just intellectually dishonest. There are many people who don't even know what Texags is that are vehemently against it.

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Yep.

Tim Weaver said:

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91_Aggie said:

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UhOhNoAgTag said:

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Pretty sure Yancy is in favor of a convention center.

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Yeah, it's one thing I disagree with him especially when he posted his reasoning that he thought we'd get big name concerts here if we had one.

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Just because you don't like it doesn't mean we don't need one.

And yes. We absolutely could get mid to large scale concerts here. This is the industry where I've spent the last 30 years. Bands want to play here and (adult) fans want to go to shows here without the added cost of taking a day off work, a hotel room in Austin or Houston, and the added cost of several meals out.

Going to see a show for anybody that lives here automatically has a few hundred bucks added to it just to get there and back.

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When I think of the conventions I have been to, I think big open floor space for vendors/posters, and some good size rooms for banquets and meetings/presentations.

When I think of the "big name" concerts I have been to, they have been arenas with stadium seating.

These seem like different facilities to me, not the same space.

Brian Alg said:

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Bob Yancy said:

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reportedly after robust citizen engagement

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Where did you get this reporting?

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Well, you yourself made a post on this platform long before I was elected called "baseball boondoggle" or something to that effect where it seemed evident most/many disagreed with you. We also had a committee back then with two dozen people whose charge was to reach out to the community and provide feedback. That feedback was positive on baseball. I haven't read it but heard from a council colleague that baseball ranked high on the bond priority list among discretionary projects. And we've had innumerable meetings at council and our own open house during my tenure focusing on baseball and no one ever once showed up and said "don't do it." To this day I don't hear a strong chorus, even a murmur really save for yourself and maybe a few (?) others against it.

None of that is as good as a bond election but it's not chopped liver, either. Citizens did vote down phase II but at that juncture they already knew they were getting 4.

Baseball is a very strong quality of life driver with a sizable economic development component. I've been to several of these tournaments and they're always packed with kids and parents and grandparents, with a lot of people from out of town.

Respectfully,

Yancy '95

https://www.athleticbusiness.com/facilities/outdoor-fields/article/15151707/how-youth-sports-tournaments-became-big-business

TXAGBQ76 said:

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How did the feasibility study miss the soils issue? Not blaming you, just curious.

---

What we've been told and the history I know:

1) Not long after elected, a contractor buddy contacts me and says there's a problem.
2) weeks later, Midtown developer contacts me with same concern.
3) I bring it up to colleagues and staff. Everything's fine basically is what I'm told.
4) I get invited to a suite for an Aggie game, contractor exec also there tells me no, there is indeed a problem.
5) about 3 to 5 months after #1 above, we are officially informed there's a problem. That the soils test was faulty. That the grid pattern was too sparse and missed a soft spot. That it would require to $8 to $10m as I recall, to dig down and replace and compact. A volumetric soft spot, basically.
6) after a ton of research I'll not discuss here, I develop a theory on what transpired with the soft spot and how it got there. I'm told no that's not it.
7) to save the investment made to that point and ensure the money invested ($5m~) we decide to pivot on the park. Repurpose it. We hold exhaustive citizen engagement efforts and it basically becomes a citizen designed park. It's in design now. The soft spot will be a fishing pond. Trails. Frisbee golf. Dog park. Playscapes and a lot more. I'm proud of the pivot. Couldn't just eat the $5m in my opinion after a LOT of research.
8) Still no baseball. Baseball community outcry follows news of the repurposing of the space. What about baseball? More citizen engagement, decision made to move forward at Veterans.
9) all the while, I've been asking "what about the engineer? The failed soil test? Of the $5m spent $1.5m~ was design fees. I want that tax money back or at a minimum $1.5m in free design services. Failing that, we need to file a claim against their Errors & Omissions policy.

We fired off a letter at my request several weeks, perhaps 3 months ago after repeatedly asking. I asked again a few meetings back "where are we with it?" Answer was: "nothing to report."

That's as accurate and transparent as my memory allows.

Respectfully

Yancy '95

Thanks for the detailed response.

Bob Yancy said:

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TXAGBQ76 said:

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How did the feasibility study miss the soils issue? Not blaming you, just curious.

---

What we've been told and the history I know:

1) Not long after elected, a contractor buddy contacts me and says there's a problem.
2) weeks later, Midtown developer contacts me with same concern.
3) I bring it up to colleagues and staff. Everything's fine basically is what I'm told.
4) I get invited to a suite for an Aggie game, contractor exec also there tells me no, there is indeed a problem.
5) about 3 to 5 months after #1 above, we are officially informed there's a problem. That the soils test was faulty. That the grid pattern was too sparse and missed a soft spot. That it would require to $8 to $10m as I recall, to dig down and replace and compact. A volumetric soft spot, basically.
6) after a ton of research I'll not discuss here, I develop a theory on what transpired with the soft spot and how it got there. I'm told no that's not it.
7) to save the investment made to that point and ensure the money invested ($5m~) we decide to pivot on the park. Repurpose it. We hold exhaustive citizen engagement efforts and it basically becomes a citizen designed park. It's in design now. The soft spot will be a fishing pond. Trails. Frisbee golf. Dog park. Playscapes and a lot more. I'm proud of the pivot. Couldn't just eat the $5m in my opinion after a LOT of research.
8) Still no baseball. Baseball community outcry follows news of the repurposing of the space. What about baseball? More citizen engagement, decision made to move forward at Veterans.
9) all the while, I've been asking "what about the engineer? The failed soil test? Of the $5m spent $1.5m~ was design fees. I want that tax money back or at a minimum $1.5m in free design services. Failing that, we need to file a claim against their Errors & Omissions policy.

We fired off a letter at my request several weeks, perhaps 3 months ago after repeatedly asking. I asked again a few meetings back "where are we with it?" Answer was: "nothing to report."

That's as accurate and transparent as my memory allows.

Respectfully

Yancy '95

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Fire the damn city manager. Come the f on Bob.

Richleau12 said:

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Bob Yancy said:

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TXAGBQ76 said:

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How did the feasibility study miss the soils issue? Not blaming you, just curious.

---

---

Fire the damn city manager. Come the f on Bob.

---

Yes. Yes.Yes.

$5M here and $7M on Macy's as two easy examples. Zero consequences, zero accountability. This is why the private sector is better to drive these things. You screw up this bad there, and you're fired (or at least the capital markets punish you by walking their money elsewhere). A now a convention center with no real reason why CS will succeed among numerous failures elsewhere.

Consequences drive better decisions.

Natalie Ruiz was the Economic development person working on the Macy's boondoggle. She "retired" from the city, but is still doing business with the city, most recently working on the proposed Northgate high-rise. IMHO, she should be barred from doing business with the city ever again.

I'm going to have to duck out of this thread guys. I was asked a simple question and gave an honest answer and now it's devolved into attacking people which I can't and won't participate in.

Any investment in an events center, if it happens, will not be College Station acting alone but with multiple partners. It's a long way off, if it happens at all. Between now and then, there'll be more opportunities for everyone to formally weigh in and, if I had my way, a multiple entity bond election where you could step into the voting booth and vote yay or nay. I hope that's fair.

And accountability IS being pursued on the soils test from the firm that failed. It's just happening too slow for my tastes, but it's happening.

Respectfully,

Yancy '95

Do the job that voters hired you to do. Fire the city manager. The deals engaged for Macy's and the baseball field did not spawn out of thin air. Clean house. You know it's the right thing to do or the city will continue to be mismanaged. Stand up for the voters. Make a stand for the council who is clearly at odds with the city manager's office. You're really the only one who will do so. Come on Bob.

Richleau12 said:

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Do the job that voters hired you to do. Fire the city manager. The deals engaged for Macy's and the baseball field did not spawn out of thin air. Clean house. You know it's the right thing to do or the city will continue to be mismanaged. Stand up for the voters. Make a stand for the council who is clearly at odds with the city manager's office. You're really the only one who will do so. Come on Bob.

---

Based on my personal interactions with current council members they seem to be of the mentality that they work for Mr Woods as opposed to the other way around. My experiences in the last few months have been reflective of the environment portrayed in the public records email release regarding the Macys deal where the city manager's ire and questionable temperament are referenced.

We voted these folks in and now they appear to be beholden to the losing horse that they keep backing. And I'm saddened to admit, I feel like Yancy is just as guilty as selling us on the smoke and mirrors. He was the only council member that I thought stood a chance at making an impact.

Richleau12 said:

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Do the job that voters hired you to do. Fire the city manager. The deals engaged for Macy's and the baseball field did not spawn out of thin air. Clean house. You know it's the right thing to do or the city will continue to be mismanaged. Stand up for the voters. Make a stand for the council who is clearly at odds with the city manager's office. You're really the only one who will do so. Come on Bob.

---

Also,

If someone at midtown wants to develop a multi use special event and conference center, let him do an equity raise and build the deal himself. If something like this is going to be such a smashing success, investors will be falling over themselves to get in once the receive and review the investor deck on such a project. The city does not need to be involved here with my tax money. If the city wants to be involved, put the deal to a vote. The city has proven time and time again recently that they could not effectively manage a snow cone stand.

She also had a hand in the creation of the special district for Midtown.

UhOhNoAgTag said:

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She also had a hand in the creation of the special district for Midtown.

---

Ding

Ding

Ding


You mean the tax overlay zone where they are soaking it to the homeowners with no ROI?

Aggie_Fire said:

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What some of you are not accounting for is that 87% of the Texas population is within 3 hours of College Station. You can have a state convention in the Triangle of Texas, and the majority of your attendees are just a morning drive away.

I think plenty of Texas are willing to drive a few hours to go to a convention. Flying to another city to go to a convention takes 3 hours by the time you drive to the airport, leave your car, fly to the next city, rent a car, drive to you hotel/convention center. Yup, that is at least 3 hours.

I personally have driven to conferences in San Antonio, Austin, and the D/FW area and the drive didn't make a difference to me. But I've lived in Texas all my life...we're used to driving. It's a big freakin state...but yet 87% of Texans live with 3 hours of here. Isn't that wild that 27 million people live within 3 hours of B/CS??

It's funny how some are saying...who would drive to CS? It's so hard to get here! It's so expensive to fly in!! Pretty sure on a hot summer day in 1 month, at least 85K people will show up to watch a football game against UTSA, and then again the next weekend for another non-conference game.

Ever think that part of the reason we have so many fans come to all of our games, rain or shine, crappy season and all, is because our game is less than a 3 hour drive? I think it has a lot to do with it, plus we're all a bunch of die-hard sunshine pumpers. But our location is very ideal and probably the most accessible university in all of Texas

---

The same demographic positives could be said for Waco, Conroe and other locations. Those cities have much more airport options than we do, Also, they have much more options for entertainment and interesting places to visit for attendees and families,

In spite of us who wear maroon glasses much of the time, A&M is not a draw for visitors to a convention center unless they are coming to A&M for an event or meeting, Outside of the Bush Library, there's basically little to see and do here, What would attract a person to come to College Station with their family for three to four days next week?

Having put on about 40 conferences on a previous job of persons from about 1000 to 5,000, the only times I used facilities in BCS was at the Hilton and only if it was a conference sponsored by A&M or connected in some fashion such as the Texas Forestry Association. Other venues we used were in Galveston, Waco, Kerrville, San Antonio, Brownsville, and Dallas. We always had a review questionnaire after the conferences and the overwhelming choice was Galveston,