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Kerrville/Guadalupe

145,168 Views | 429 Replies | Last: 5 days ago by Kenneth_2003
htownag10
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Low head dams are some of the most dangerous areas. They are drowning machines. It creates a washing machine effect aka a back flow that pulls you back towards the damn after you go over it. We call it the Maytag effect but it's technically called back flow. The other problem is that it churns up the water which makes it 40% air. Well you sink in that. You have to get past the boil line to get out. This link is a great illustration
https://www.boat-ed.com/waterrescue/studyGuide/Low-Head-Dams/191099_55419/
slammerag
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This is very true. There was a green barrel tumbling and rolling at the center point bridge. Was like it was tied off. Several hrs later it came free and we saw it floating down stream.
Pinochet
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dubi said:

I saw people calling out Operation Airdrop on Facebook for taking credit for activities performed by other groups.

They should honestly just send them away if they are simply attention seeking.

I get angrier and angrier about this group. They told everyone they "were activated" like they are some sort of TTF1-adjacent org and then they started paying private pilots for their round trip flights from Addison to Burnet and back (illegal) and encouraged others to start public gofundme campaigns for gas money for their own flights (also illegal) to get supplies to Burnet, where they would truck them the rest of the way once they got a donated trailer. Not only did they arguably operate an illegal airline with illegal pilots for little to no benefit, they spent more of other well meaning individuals' money on transportation costs than the actual supplies. It's not like the roads are washed out to get supplies into the mountains like in North Carolina. These idiots just wanted an excuse to fly their airplanes and pretend to be sky gods in a public fashion.

I just got word from someone actually involved in county level response in Kerrville, and he said they have no problem with supplies right now. The Home Depot and the Walmart is still there. They don't need a truckload of bleach and Gatorade and mops. They need people out of the way so actual first responders can do their jobs. They need guys in steel toes with training, not overweight old guys who think they can get a picture for Facebook of themselves cutting someone's drywall out. I understand wanting to be helpful, but these jackwagons who take advantage of others' generosity just to make themselves feel important are disgusting.
htownag10
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We can go down a whole rabbit hole of sieves, strainers, manholes, culverts. The amount of unseen dangers especially during and after the flood are bad.
Who?mikejones!
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Pinochet said:

dubi said:

I saw people calling out Operation Airdrop on Facebook for taking credit for activities performed by other groups.

They should honestly just send them away if they are simply attention seeking.

I get angrier and angrier about this group. They told everyone they "were activated" like they are some sort of TTF1-adjacent org and then they started paying private pilots for their round trip flights from Addison to Burnet and back (illegal) and encouraged others to start public gofundme campaigns for gas money for their own flights (also illegal) to get supplies to Burnet, where they would truck them the rest of the way once they got a donated trailer. Not only did they arguably operate an illegal airline with illegal pilots for little to no benefit, they spent more of other well meaning individuals' money on transportation costs than the actual supplies. It's not like the roads are washed out to get supplies into the mountains like in North Carolina. These idiots just wanted an excuse to fly their airplanes and pretend to be sky gods in a public fashion.

I just got word from someone actually involved in county level response in Kerrville, and he said they have no problem with supplies right now. The Home Depot and the Walmart is still there. They don't need a truckload of bleach and Gatorade and mops. They need people out of the way so actual first responders can do their jobs. They need guys in steel toes with training, not overweight old guys who think they can get a picture for Facebook of themselves cutting someone's drywall out. I understand wanting to be helpful, but these jackwagons who take advantage of others' generosity just to make themselves feel important are disgusting.



I partially agree. I dont want to turn away help from neighbors, locals and fellow Texans, generally speaking. Im a big fan of community involvement in repairing our shared neighborhoods.

I'll never forget when I took a load of supplies to Katy during Harvey. It was about 2 weeks post storm and I was delivering 4 pallets of goods from one church to another for distribution. I was driving about 4 in the morning and was getting passed by many vans and suvs full of people i assume were headed in to help in recovery. It was such an awesome moment to see the response and all the fat men and women in their way to help.

Im also part of a professional response organization. I understand the absolutely necessity the authorities need to keep a clear disaster zone and to work through official channels, star requests, etc. They need to get to the proper place in their work before volunteers are allowed to swarm the area.

I share with you the absolute disgust the way some non profit organizations attack the disasters. Its little better than ambulance chasers in my opinion. Many of the groups need tragedy in order to operate and that doesn't sit well with me.

The real need isnt right now. As you referenced, the supplies and volunteers are too much. The real need will be in a month, 6 months and a year from now, when all the abundant help is gone and families are more or less left to fend for themselves.
Hey Nav
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Concerning the question of helicopter type hit by a drone - might have been a Blackhawk.

Posted link with a grain of salt...

https://kerrcountylead.com/drone-strikes-helicopter-carrying-kerrville-city-officials-during-flood-recovery/
Naveronski
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First time I've seen that article, thank you.
Hey Nav
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The councilman in the video is a former Marine. I think he is speaking accurately.

Btw, the City Manager of Kerrville, Dalton Rice, was also onboard. (He's the guy in the ball cap speaking a lot at all the press conferences.) For those that may have wondered why Dalton was out on the river walk in Kerrville at 3am of the tragic morning, it's because it was his habit to be up at that time for his morning run. He is a 13 year Army Special Forces veteran ( you know, a real Green Beret).

As I mentioned on day one, he is sharp and we're lucky we've had him involved in this small town.
EMY92
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Charge the drone operators with attempted murder if their drone strikes a manned aircraft. That might get the attention of the other idiots that have to get their footage for Facebook. Then go after them with the $75,000 fine.
FTAG 2000
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FAA will be breaking one off in that drone operator, assuming they track them down
dubi
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Meteorological Breakdown of the Texas Floods of July 2025

By Texas Storm Chasers
roo333
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Apologies if this isn't the right forum, but what do you think is going to happen with all of these camps that line the river. Will parents still want to send their kids? Will the kids want to go if they know what happened?
Alta
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roo333 said:

Apologies if this isn't the right forum, but what do you think is going to happen with all of these camps that line the river. Will parents still want to send their kids? Will the kids want to go if they know what happened?


Can't speak to other parents but I will continue to send my kids to these camps (as long as they still exist). They are wonderful camps full of wonderful people. And if you really wanted to calculate risk my kids are more at risk driving to and from camp than being at camp along these rivers.
JunctionBoy1138
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I don't know how Mystic, Heart o' the Hills and La Junta will be insurable after this event, and that's not even considering how Mystic may face lawsuits that put it out of business. Also I went to La Junta and the murmurs I am hearing from alums about its future are concerning. Heart o' the Hills will have to almost completely rebuild. I really fear there will be no more camps on the South Fork when this all shakes out.
swimmerbabe11
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posting this from one of the other threads but 94chem said this really really well.
We all deal will the traumas that we have lived through and try to keep each other as safe as possible...but no matter what, there are fires, plane crashes, tornadoes, earthquakes, floods, avalanches, swarms of bees, violent people etc.

We can only do so much. Going to camp as a kid was a highlight of childhood. You can't teach anyone a love of the outdoors.. or even swimming in normal water, without teaching them awe of nature... and part of awe is a respect for how powerful and dangerous it can sometimes be.
Who?mikejones!
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My fear is insurance costs being unsustainable
BANA89
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Who?mikejones! said:

My fear is insurance costs being unsustainable

Standard home building guidelines from I gathered was to build two feet above of the 100 year flood line. If they rebuild two feet above the high water mark for the existing buildings they would likely be insurable. That's just speculation, but a lot of people are allowed to rebuild in flood plains after a flood event.
BANA Class of '86/'89 - Living in Aggieland!
DannyDuberstein
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That would cover the property. But general business liability may still be another story
Phat32
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CollieLover1138 said:

I don't know how Mystic, Heart o' the Hills and La Junta will be insurable after this event, and that's not even considering how Mystic may face lawsuits that put it out of business. Also I went to La Junta and the murmurs I am hearing from alums about its future are concerning. Heart o' the Hills will have to almost completely rebuild. I really fear there will be no more camps on the South Fork when this all shakes out.
Go back and forth from "absolutely no way" to "maybe" on the some of the camps returning.

Have settled on La Junta returning if they can get reinsured. But the biggest problem will be convincing moms, directly or indirectly devastated by this past week, to send their sons there again. And from the videos I've seen from the swim bay there, it doesn't even look like the same camp. Their best feature, the riverfront, looks like it got nuked.
JP76
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Thanks for the explanation.
DannyDuberstein
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Yeah, being able to answer for prospective parents/campers "where is my kid staying relative to what happened in 2025?" is something all of these camps are going to have to deal with for years to come - at least any that reopen. Hard to imagine any answer other than "all of our facilities where kids sleep/eat/congregate are X above…." seems like it would be a non-starter to having a viable business return. But this is all for another day.
BrazosDog02
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What happens when everyone says "whew…your camp is 10' higher than the one that flooded. Thank god! Let's do it!"

And then we get a flood worse than the last?
FM 949
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I think you will be surprised at how many kids and parents will send their kids back to camps. There will be needed changes and lessons learned. A basic understanding of probability and wanting their kids to experience what these camps stand for will win out.
DannyDuberstein
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Yeah, will they collectively be as robust as they were? Highly unlikely for many years. But this industry is not going to disappear from the area
Senator Blutarski
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I will continue to send my girls and I sincerely hope they reopen with every tradition in place plus reasonable safety improvements. And my girls have both expressed interest in returning as counselors. Their older brother is working at Philmont this summer before starting at A&M this fall.

Also keep in mind, Mystic Cypress Lake did not flood that I am aware of. I hope they can survive the lawsuits and insurance issues because the demand, need, and benefits will only be bigger for the next 100 years (in my opinion).
jopatura
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I've seen people say they are ready to send their kids next year. These camps are exclusive enough that they will find enough parents willing to send their kids for the note on the resume.

Rebuilding without the owners may prove more difficult, especially if any insurance money is paid out to the families. There may just not be enough cash to rebuild.
FM 949
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jopatura said:

I've seen people say they are ready to send their kids next year. These camps are exclusive enough that they will find enough parents willing to send their kids for the note on the resume.

Rebuilding without the owners may prove more difficult, especially if any insurance money is paid out to the families. There may just not be enough cash to rebuild.
I think this is a pretty crass statement, honestly.
Secolobo
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BrazosDog02 said:

What happens when everyone says "whew…your camp is 10' higher than the one that flooded. Thank god! Let's do it!"

And then we get a flood worse than the last?
Kinda like hurricanes?
one safe place
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Alta said:

roo333 said:

Apologies if this isn't the right forum, but what do you think is going to happen with all of these camps that line the river. Will parents still want to send their kids? Will the kids want to go if they know what happened?


Can't speak to other parents but I will continue to send my kids to these camps (as long as they still exist). They are wonderful camps full of wonderful people. And if you really wanted to calculate risk my kids are more at risk driving to and from camp than being at camp along these rivers.
But those are separate risks, one does not offset the other, both risks exist.

You mention "as long as they exist." I would bet some will not reopen, some might initially but then close due to legal issues, and some will relocate to higher ground to the extent they can.
SUag
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There will likely be a strong viable mass of return campers to places like La Junta regardless of location, but how can you think the new camper family pool will not be dramatically shrunk if kept where it is? First level research will go from one isolated child abuse story 20+ years ago to biblical death flood in the area as recent as it could be.

Personally, if I were a camp owner, I would move the camp to a non-flood risk lake front asap and try to get as much support from the alumni to help fund it and otherwise transition.
Alta
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I can't control if these places exist or not. But I'll do everything in my power to support them and hope they do continue to exist. They are special places, with special people that I believe we need a lot more of rather than less of in society. And I especially want my children to continue to have the experiences these camps offer. They are quite unique compared to other places we have experienced. And I know a lot of others feel similarity who have utilized these camps in the past.
REMD181
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Holy shikes! I know several people that have houses across the street from Hunt store. That is unreal. Been going there for 45 years and never seen it get to Hunt store.
REMD181
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If the river really crests 37 feet at Spring Branch, it will be way way over the highway at the Guadalupe river bridge on 281. The 281 bridge would seem to be in jeopardy.
Rattler12
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No it wouldn't. I live maybe 600 yards upriver from the bridge and the 2002 flood crested at 44 feet and lapped at the bottom of the bridge but didn't go over This flood crested at about 29 give or take and not 37. I drove over the bridge at about 6:45 in the morning and the water was a good 15 feet or more below the bridge
Gunny456
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I'll 2nd what Rattler says. I lived on Guadalupe 4 miles downstream from the 281 bridge for 30 years. In 1978 the Guadalupe crested at 45.26 feet at Spring Branch and 51' at Rebecca Creek … it barely ran over the 281 bridge roadway that night. I witnessed it.
In 2002 it crested about a foot less than the 1978 flood and lapped the bottom of the bridge as Rattler12 says.
 
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