***** 2025-2026 San Antonio Spurs Thread *****

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AggieEP
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In reply to Guitarsoup • 7:08p, 8/4/25
There are pros and cons with the direction the NBA went with the "max" deals.

The pro is that you don't have a situation where Jokic gets paid 200 million a year. He's limited on how much he can make despite being the best player on the planet. On the cons side, every team is basically forced into paying their stars the max out of fear of losing them to someone else. So we've got the MVP level guys like Jokic, Shai and Giannis making the same as guys like Bradley Beal, Paul George and now Fox. Fox is a good player but clearly a step down from a franchise altering player like Jokic.

Fox is good value at 30 to 40 million a year, at 60 obviously not good value, but it is what it is and as Guitar said the Spurs don't have much choice here. He's a guy that forced his way to San Antonio. It'd be a really bad look for the organization of they then played hard ball with the contract situation.
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Guitarsoup
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In reply to AggieEP • 8:02p, 8/4/25
AG
AggieEP said:
There are pros and cons with the direction the NBA went with the "max" deals.

The pro is that you don't have a situation where Jokic gets paid 200 million a year. He's limited on how much he can make despite being the best player on the planet. On the cons side, every team is basically forced into paying their stars the max out of fear of losing them to someone else. So we've got the MVP level guys like Jokic, Shai and Giannis making the same as guys like Bradley Beal, Paul George and now Fox. Fox is a good player but clearly a step down from a franchise altering player like Jokic.

Fox is good value at 30 to 40 million a year, at 60 obviously not good value, but it is what it is and as Guitar said the Spurs don't have much choice here. He's a guy that forced his way to San Antonio. It'd be a really bad look for the organization of they then played hard ball with the contract situation.

I think that is all right.

When Fox's contract hits, he will be tied for 17th highest paid player. There are a whole lot of guys above him that I wouldn't want at their contract price. Fox will be making less than or equal to: AD, Embiid, Booker, Brown, KAT, Butler, PG13, Kawhi, Mobley, Jamal Murray, and BAM. I don't like any of those contracts either due to injury (AD, Embiid, Kawhi, Murray, PG13), Age (Butler, and some of the injury concern players), or just because I don't think they are really game breakers (BAM, Mobley.) Sure, they are both great defenders, but you can't give Mobley or BAM the ball in the 4th quarter and tell him to go get you a bucket. They make take a player out of the game on defense, but I don't think either can control a defense even close to Wemby.

I don't think DeAaron Fox is proven as a top 20 player in the league right now, but I do think he is unquestionably a top 20 scorer in the league. He's also a guy that you can give him the ball and count on him to go get a bucket in crunch time. He creates matchup problems because he is the fastest player in the league, so teams relying on bigger/stronger POA defenders may have struggles with him.

And while he isn't Castle or Sochan as a defender, he does have quick hands and feet and good anticipation. He did lead the league in steals. And on a team with Wemby, Castle, Sochan, and Bryant, Fox will likely be given some freedom to attack passing lanes and won't be stuck on the best offensive player. That will play to his strengths.

I like him a TON more than Trae, because while Fox is small, he's still 6'3.5 in shoes and isn't completely worthless on defense.

Top 25 scorers at age 27 and under last year:

1. SGA
4. Ant
5. Tatum
7. Cade
14. Trae
15. Franz Wagner
17. Herro
18. Fox (with a busted finger)
23. JJJ
25. JDub

After that you start getting into a lot of volume scorers on bad teams (RJ Barrett, Poole, Coby White, the ****ty Bridges, etc.)

---------

I still think Summer 2028, Fox gets traded if Harper/Castle are who we think they are. Three years for Fox/Wemby/Castle/Harper then in the 28-29 season, Castle's extension hits. Time to trade Fox for a couple young players and some picks. And hope that Sochan learned to shoot the corner three by then. A Wemby/Sochan/Bryant/Castle/Harper team could be incredible.


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FTAG 2000
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7:27a, 8/5/25
AG
Good breakdown GS.
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Obi Wan Ginobili
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9:03a, 8/5/25
I wish he would have taken some kind of discount, whether it be cash or the structure, but whatever. Fox is a great player to pair with Wemby for a few years.

It's also entirely possible that Castle and Harper don't necessarily make leaps like we would want them to and they just become good role players. Seems unlikely, but it is possible. If that were to be that case, we know what we have in Fox, and it's locked up and done now.
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Guitarsoup
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In reply to Obi Wan Ginobili • 9:13a, 8/5/25
AG
Obi Wan Ginobili said:
I wish he would have taken some kind of discount, whether it be cash or the structure, but whatever. Fox is a great player to pair with Wemby for a few years.

It's also entirely possible that Castle and Harper don't necessarily make leaps like we would want them to and they just become good role players. Seems unlikely, but it is possible. If that were to be that case, we know what we have in Fox, and it's locked up and done now.

While we didn't get a discount, we did get two things that benefit us:

1. No player option on 4th year
2. No trade kicker

Both make it easier for us to trade him and easier for us to get better value for him. If Castle and Harper do just become role players, then like you said, it's like a cow's opinion. It's moo. We've already locked in our #2 guy.

But if we do end up trading him after 2 years of this contract, no kicker and no opt out threat helps keep his value high.
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Obi Wan Ginobili
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In reply to Guitarsoup • 9:51a, 8/5/25
Guitarsoup said:
Obi Wan Ginobili said:
I wish he would have taken some kind of discount, whether it be cash or the structure, but whatever. Fox is a great player to pair with Wemby for a few years.

It's also entirely possible that Castle and Harper don't necessarily make leaps like we would want them to and they just become good role players. Seems unlikely, but it is possible. If that were to be that case, we know what we have in Fox, and it's locked up and done now.

While we didn't get a discount, we did get two things that benefit us:

1. No player option on 4th year
2. No trade kicker

Both make it easier for us to trade him and easier for us to get better value for him. If Castle and Harper do just become role players, then like you said, it's like a cow's opinion. It's moo. We've already locked in our #2 guy.

But if we do end up trading him after 2 years of this contract, no kicker and no opt out threat helps keep his value high.

About as good as it gets if you're giving someone the maximum possible dollars the cap allows for 4 years.


Also, since I took a turn towards negative-town on my last comment, I'll try the Silver colored glasses on this one...

What if Fox is unlocked because of Wemby? What if Fox works his balls off to be a good enough 3 pt. shooter that teams at least have to respect it? The guy is only 27. I think we know what we have in Fox, but maybe the sum of the parts of this team equal way more than we can imagine until they actually get some run together.
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Guitarsoup
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In reply to Obi Wan Ginobili • 10:01a, 8/5/25
AG
Quote:
What if Fox is unlocked because of Wemby? What if Fox works his balls off to be a good enough 3 pt. shooter that teams at least have to respect it? The guy is only 27. I think we know what we have in Fox, but maybe the sum of the parts of this team equal way more than we can imagine until they actually get some run together.

I think this is very real. Fox knew he wasn't good enough to be the #1 on a championship team. But he is good enough to be #2. He's a top 15 scorer and was top 10 in 2024.

Fox is a downhill paint scorer. Now he has a center that can stretch the defense as well as score at 82% at the rim. He has Kornet and Sochan, who were two of the most efficient roll men in the league last year.

Let's say Fox and Wemby both play 33mpg next year. I think we will shuffle it so one is always on the court. That means 15mpg, Fox will likely be running against the other team's 2nd unit. And Harper gets an easier go against first units because they have to key on Wemby.

The Spurs have the personnel to keep on the floor at all times:

1. Elite POA defender (Castle/Sochan)
2. Elite Rim Protector (Kornet/Wemby)
3. Top 15 scorer (Wemby/Fox)

How many other teams can say the same?

For the first time in his career, Fox won't be the focal point of other team defenses.

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Ag Natural
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12:15p, 8/5/25
AG
I was definitely hoping to get Fox with some discount since he knows he's not even the best player on his team. But when OKC gave out 3 max deals at the same time I pretty much resigned myself to this outcome. Oh well, we'll see how it plays out.
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CC09LawAg
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In reply to Obi Wan Ginobili • 12:19p, 8/5/25
This is where I'm at.

Was hoping for a discount but wasn't expecting one.

And with his surgery + Wemby and overall roster improvement, I can talk myself into Fox being a 10% better player than he has been. Plus, he seems to be a great teammate, vet, and locker room presence for the young guys.

I assume the talk was had about the future and possibility of the young guys eventually taking over and that was the compromise for max money vs. structuring the end of the deal the way they did.

I think it's a win for all involved.
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Obi Wan Ginobili
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2:06p, 8/5/25
NBA players are massively overpaid, but the CBA dictates how much of the basketball related income is required to go to the players. I would rather the players be overpaid than the owners keeping a bigger share.

Also, if I was any of these guys, I would imagine itt's not easy to just leave millions of dollars on the table. The difference between $210 million and $229 million might not seem like much for us sitting at our screens, but if you can realistically get the entire amount, you don't owe anyone a discount. Get that cheddar, Fox
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FTAG 2000
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2:36p, 8/5/25
AG
We got our discount on Fox in what we paid to get him.
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AggieEP
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In reply to Obi Wan Ginobili • 4:06p, 8/5/25
Obi Wan Ginobili said:
NBA players are massively overpaid, but the CBA dictates how much of the basketball related income is required to go to the players. I would rather the players be overpaid than the owners keeping a bigger share.

Also, if I was any of these guys, I would imagine itt's not easy to just leave millions of dollars on the table. The difference between $210 million and $229 million might not seem like much for us sitting at our screens, but if you can realistically get the entire amount, you don't owe anyone a discount. Get that cheddar, Fox


I'm on record probably 100 times agreeing with the principle of players getting paid being way better than owners getting paid.

The thing about the NBA system that bothers me though is what we are seeing more frequently where low to mid level guys are getting squeezed because almost all 30 teams are capped out. Guys like Fox should be 30 million a year guys based on value, but he's making 50+ because of the fact that giving the max has become the only way to treat your top 1-2 guys out of fear of them bolting.

Once you've got 2 max guys on your roster, it becomes hard to fill out the rest of your team, when you have 3 like OKC does now you're extremely limited in ways to pay anyone else or improve the roster. OKC is just going to ride or die with this team trying to win a couple more titles before it's going to have to be blown up.

I'm not the biggest Kuminga fan, but he's probably going to be forced to return to Golden State on a deal he doesn't like with a team he doesn't want to play for because no one else has room to sign him. Why don't they have room? Because Lavine makes 50 million, Garland makes 40 million, Siakam makes 45 million etc. etc.

I wish the NBA could find a way to say, look you're a good player but the non super star max is capped at 30 million a year. Say you have to have made the all NBA 1st team at least twice in the previous 5 years or something to qualify for anything more than that.

So the transformative players like Jokic and Giannis can still make 50 million, but the sidekick guys are limited to 30 million (or whatever percentage of the cap makes sense because that's how the league determines these numbers).

Basically I'd like to see more 20-30 million guys on the league. What we're trending towards now is teams with three 50 million guys and then a bunch of smaller deals to fill out a roster. Those guys at the bottom could easily be making 10 million and be worth it. I'd just like to see the true max contracts limited to max level guys.
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Ag Natural
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In reply to AggieEP • 5:13p, 8/5/25
AG
AggieEP said:
Obi Wan Ginobili said:
NBA players are massively overpaid, but the CBA dictates how much of the basketball related income is required to go to the players. I would rather the players be overpaid than the owners keeping a bigger share.

Also, if I was any of these guys, I would imagine itt's not easy to just leave millions of dollars on the table. The difference between $210 million and $229 million might not seem like much for us sitting at our screens, but if you can realistically get the entire amount, you don't owe anyone a discount. Get that cheddar, Fox


I'm on record probably 100 times agreeing with the principle of players getting paid being way better than owners getting paid.

The thing about the NBA system that bothers me though is what we are seeing more frequently where low to mid level guys are getting squeezed because almost all 30 teams are capped out. Guys like Fox should be 30 million a year guys based on value, but he's making 50+ because of the fact that giving the max has become the only way to treat your top 1-2 guys out of fear of them bolting.

Once you've got 2 max guys on your roster, it becomes hard to fill out the rest of your team, when you have 3 like OKC does now you're extremely limited in ways to pay anyone else or improve the roster. OKC is just going to ride or die with this team trying to win a couple more titles before it's going to have to be blown up.

I'm not the biggest Kuminga fan, but he's probably going to be forced to return to Golden State on a deal he doesn't like with a team he doesn't want to play for because no one else has room to sign him. Why don't they have room? Because Lavine makes 50 million, Garland makes 40 million, Siakam makes 45 million etc. etc.

I wish the NBA could find a way to say, look you're a good player but the non super star max is capped at 30 million a year. Say you have to have made the all NBA 1st team at least twice in the previous 5 years or something to qualify for anything more than that.

So the transformative players like Jokic and Giannis can still make 50 million, but the sidekick guys are limited to 30 million (or whatever percentage of the cap makes sense because that's how the league determines these numbers).

Basically I'd like to see more 20-30 million guys on the league. What we're trending towards now is teams with three 50 million guys and then a bunch of smaller deals to fill out a roster. Those guys at the bottom could easily be making 10 million and be worth it. I'd just like to see the true max contracts limited to max level guys.

I agree the current system is massively flawed and that is true that it's eliminating the middle class salaries. Another huge problem is you basically get punished for drafting too well. OKC will have to let some of these go and SA hopefully will have the same issue in a few years. One other idea I've heard is to figure out a way to allow players salaries to grow but exempt some of it from the luxury tax calculation if a player remains with the team that drafted them. That alone would inch closer to solving both issues.
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West Texan
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7:21p, 8/5/25
AG
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CC09LawAg
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In reply to AggieEP • 8:53a, 8/6/25
I do like this idea. I think what you're getting at has probably contributed to the current style of play as well.

You either get the ball and are a superstar, or you play D and shoot 3s and get low level contracts. There really isn't any reason for a guy to develop his game to do anything in between because you won't get paid for it.

Which is a bummer because I feel like there used to be a lot more guys with "unique" games that probably wouldn't get paid/rewarded in today's NBA.
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Guitarsoup
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10:00a, 8/6/25
AG
I think the market will even out, but teams are adjusting and reacting to seeing Boston and Denver gut their championship teams.

I think our vision of it is also tempered by how awful a FA season it was. Only two teams had cap space (Brooklyn and Detroit) and there really weren't any good FAs on the market looking to move teams. Myles Turner was the best one, and he got a intermediate contract at about 16% of the cap, which is about what people are expecting to go away.

But last year we saw PG13, Spicy P, and OG Anunoby all get the max. And we saw several of those intermediate players like Quickley, Hartenstein, Bridges, Claxton, KCP, and Patrick Williams all get way overpaid.

I think this summer is more of an abnormality of resetting and we will see more spending next summer. And you will see guys get way overpaid again.
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Obi Wan Ginobili
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10:06a, 8/6/25
I love CBA bashing


I'm just an internet dork with an opinion, but I would like to see the following be the core rules of contracts in the NBA:

  • Salary Cap - No aprons, none of that bull. Pick a salary cap number and a minimum salary floor.
  • No Max contracts based on % of cap, etc. If a player is worth $100 million, they should get that. Let the market actually decide a players value. My guess? We will find out REAL quick that no one is going to pay that much for 1 player and agents will have to adjust their mindset thinking someone like Fox is worth 55 million a season.
  • Special rules for keeping your own players. Assuming fans want their teams to be able to keep players, the league should extend the advantages given to teams for keeping their roster together. Some kind of base set of rules for how long that player has to be on your team or how you acquired the player, and if they meet those qualifications, some of their salary shouldn't count towards your salary cap.
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Guitarsoup
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10:53a, 8/6/25
AG
The Admiral is 60 today.

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Guitarsoup
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1:11p, 8/6/25
AG
Harrison Ingram gets final 2-way.

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Guitarsoup
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6:15p, 8/6/25
AG
On Sochan being extension worthy.

TL;DR: I think he is worth about 4y60M (about 7-10% of cap) right now, but I think he will bet on himself and try to get more next summer rather than locking in this summer.

He has a lot of promise, but we can't pay based on what we hope he can develop into. Right now, he is a perimeter defender that needs to have shooters around him. Plays with a lot of hustle and energy, but offensively, he really can only work as a screener/roll man. We can't really play him alongside Steph Castle, and Castle has more talent offensively.
Until he can prove he can shoot, he should be in the 7-10% of the cap range.
If he proves he has developed a reliable shot, then he could be in that 10-15% range, because suddenly he can spread defenses on offense.
Non-Rookie Forwards in 7-10% of cap range for 26-27 season:
  • Aaron Nesmith 6.5%
  • Jarred Vanderbilt 7.3%
  • Brandon Clarke 7.4%
  • Deni Adjiva 7.7%
  • DFS 8.1%
  • Kispert 8.2%
  • Grant Williams 8.4%
  • Jonathan Issac 8.5%
  • Bobby Portis 8.8%
  • Obi Toppin 8.8%
  • Herb Jones 9%
  • Duncan Robinson 9.6%
  • Keldon 10.3%
  • Patrick Williams 10.6%
Non-Rookie Forwards in the 10-16% Range:
  • Dillon Brooks 12.1%
  • Kuzma 12.3%
  • Miles Bridges 13.4%
  • Jabari 14.3%
  • Hunter 14.6%
  • DeRozan 15%
  • Jaden McDaniels 15.4%
  • Trey Murphy 15.8%
  • Draymond Green 16.2%
I think Sochan can earn his way into the 10-15% range, but he has not proven he belongs there just yet. I really hope he can do it, but I also hope the Spurs can lock him into a team-friendly deal.
Realistically, the Spurs should be trying to sign him for a 4y deal in the 7-10% range. And I totally understand if Sochan wants to bet on himself and try for that 10-15% range. But we can't afford to go over ~9% on a guy that can't hit 34% of his threes.
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AggieEP
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In reply to Guitarsoup • 7:32p, 8/6/25
Agree 10 million percent.

If we have to let him walk, we let him walk. 6'9'' dudes that play defense with energy and CAN'T shoot can be found in the bargain bin. If he unlocks a 40% stroke this year then he's earned a 10-12% of the cap deal. But until the of becomes a reality our offer should stay in the 7% range at best.

Long term we know Wemby and Fox (then hopefully Castle or Harper) are going to be on max deals. That means every other deal has to be dialed in exactly on the value they bring. We can't afford to overpay anyone and keep a competitive and deep roster. Anyone from here on our from that tier 2 group has got to really earn their paychecks or else we let them walk and replenish with young guys.
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superunknown
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In reply to AggieEP • 9:59p, 8/6/25
AG
AggieEP said:
Agree 10 million percent.

If we have to let him walk, we let him walk. 6'9'' dudes that play defense with energy and CAN'T shoot can be found in the bargain bin. If he unlocks a 40% stroke this year then he's earned a 10-12% of the cap deal. But until the of becomes a reality our offer should stay in the 7% range at best.

Long term we know Wemby and Fox (then hopefully Castle or Harper) are going to be on max deals. That means every other deal has to be dialed in exactly on the value they bring. We can't afford to overpay anyone and keep a competitive and deep roster. Anyone from here on our from that tier 2 group has got to really earn their paychecks or else we let them walk and replenish with young guys.


I agree with you 100% but that 2nd part is gonna be hard to swallow for diehards who fall in love with the likes of Jonathan Simmons and Malik Rose. With today's CBA, the bottom 75% of your roster needs to be somewhere between cheap and reasonable and there's gonna be churn.
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Guitarsoup
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6:35p, 8/7/25
AG
Bev's reaction is perfect.

https://instagr.am/p/DND-eIdRfVk

Also, **** the Jazz.
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AggieEP
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In reply to Guitarsoup • 7:27p, 8/7/25
Never heard that Malone story before. Always hated the Jazz, this just gives me one more reason to.

13 year old girl... WTF. My daughter is 12 and the thought that a man would do that with a little girl is beyond my ability to understand.
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Guitarsoup
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In reply to AggieEP • 8:26p, 8/7/25
AG
He already had twins that he refused to take care of when he knocked up a 12yo while playing basketball at LaTech. She had his son at 13yo.

The mother of the twins and the mother of the little boy all sued him and he refused to pay $125/week in child support while playing in the NBA. He refused to talk to or have any relationship with any of those three kids he fathered. Two of three played professional sports.

The mother of the twins sued him in the late 80s and he drew the case out for 3 years while refusing paternity tests or for telling the court his salary or assets.

Karl's an all-time awful person.
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Enzo The Baker
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In reply to Guitarsoup • 6:53a, 8/8/25
AG
And we were a hair shy of signing him in 03. Thank goodness we didn't.
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Guitarsoup
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In reply to Enzo The Baker • 8:13a, 8/8/25
AG
Enzo The Baker said:
And we were a hair shy of signing him in 03. Thank goodness we didn't.

I don't think that is actually true. Robinson was gone and Spurs were having essentially rebuild a lot of the roster. He was always going to sign with Shaq/Kobe/Phil.

Spurs only brought back 6 players from the playoff roster: Big 3, Bowen, Malik Rose (traded following year) and 41yo Kevin Willis.
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MookieBlaylock
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8:26a, 8/8/25
AG
what do you mean it wasn't true- he was set to sign and the spurs fans lost their ****e about it

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LawHall88
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8:33a, 8/8/25
AG
https://www.basketballnetwork.net/old-school/karl-malone-was-close-to-joining-the-spurs-2005-championship-winning-roster
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Guitarsoup
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8:41a, 8/8/25
AG
Spurs were trying desperately to get Jason Kidd in 2003. Not Malone. Anyone that remembers that time period remembers that Spurs going after Kidd and getting a center to put next to Duncan to replace Robinson were the two biggest priorities.

https://www.si.com/nba/spurs/news/jason-kidd-nearly-signed-san-antonio-spurs-nets-2003-nba-finals-loss-free-agency




Spurs traded their 28th pick away (LeAndro Barbosa) to clear more cap space to sign Kidd.

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Enzo The Baker
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In reply to Guitarsoup • 9:12a, 8/8/25
AG
Guitarsoup said:
Enzo The Baker said:
And we were a hair shy of signing him in 03. Thank goodness we didn't.

I don't think that is actually true. Robinson was gone and Spurs were having essentially rebuild a lot of the roster. He was always going to sign with Shaq/Kobe/Phil.

Spurs only brought back 6 players from the playoff roster: Big 3, Bowen, Malik Rose (traded following year) and 41yo Kevin Willis.

Ahh. I'm remembering it wrong. We almost signed him in 04. But he decided to retire. I remember him eating with the brain trust at water street oyster bar.
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Guitarsoup
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In reply to Enzo The Baker • 9:27a, 8/8/25
AG
Malone had the knee problems when he was with the Lakers and didn't sign with anyone over the summer and was quasi-retired but wanted to ring chase.

Really glad we didn't get him a ring.

In 2003, Spurs went hardest after Kidd. Fans wanted Jermaine ONeal. ONeal stayed with Indiana in large part because of his relationship with coach Isiah Thomas. Bird kept ONeal then promptly fired Thomas and hired Rick Carlisle before the season even started, which pissed off Jermaine. But obviously was the right decision.

During the 03 season, someone with the Spurs had told me that the front office loved Elton Brand, and I expected the Spurs to be able to snatch him from the Clippers but Donald Sterling shocked the world by opening up the checkbook to keep Brand. There was talk with in the Spurs organization that the Spurs might be able to pull both Brand and Maggette from the Clippers that year since Sterling typically wouldn't pay to keep his players. Spurs liked the idea of Brand/Duncan/Bowen/Maggette/Parker with Ginobili as 6th man.

But hey, we ended up with Rasho and one year of Turkeyglue, so it all worked out.
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CC09LawAg
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In reply to Enzo The Baker • 11:30a, 8/8/25
Boy, if millionaires are eating at Water Street, maybe I don't need to make any more money to experience the finer things in life.
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West Texan
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6:26p, 8/8/25
AG
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LawHall88
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6:55p, 8/8/25
AG
The Age of Wemby is upon us.
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