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Could you please define the term "deal" when referring to Trump and Putin? Do you really believe that Putin or Trump for that matter will stand by this "deal". A deal is where you get something good, not being stuck in the ass with a fork.

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I think Trump and Putin have agreed to the terms to end the conflict, about which Zelensky simply has not agreed and then went on camera and made extremely opposing claims.

I'd for one like for Boeing to sell planes to Russia, to replace the Chinese orders/deliveries, among other things, and possibly to use their rare earth elements (and titanium) moving forward vs. China. This would be a win for the US, likely, and not a single Trump supporter I know cares about the Donbas or Crimean fantasies of Zelensky.

Let the Euro's keep talking about their support, while 2.6 billion pounds in debt are now in limbo.

Ukraine fails to reach deal to restructure $2.6bn of debt https://t.co/T4JW8Pb7N3

— Financial Times (@FT) April 24, 2025

It's all huge money, and corruption, at scale. Again for posterity I'd note that a lack of traceability/audits was a feature under the Biden regime, for 'aid' to Kiev. "No, sorry, oversight not needed in this case, I am close to retirement."-Joe Manchin

Dave Robicheaux said:

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rgag12 said:

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If I'm Russia, I don't know if I agree to a peace deal. A couple more years and Ukraine will crumble and he can get the whole thing.

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Russia has said since the beginning it doesnt want to control all of Ukraine.

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They started the war off by attempting to take control of Kiev. Only reason why they haven't tried to take it again is because they can't.

A loss for Trump? No. There is no part of this Democrat boondoggle that is Trumps fault.

Who?mikejones! said:

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FIDO_Ags said:

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And for that to happen, the Trump administration has to quit playing into Russian hands. At this point trump has no leverage, in fact, he folded early.

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What leverage does the west have.

There is nothing currently discussed that would really bother putin.
More sanctions? Dont think he cares
More weapons to ukraine? Don't think he cares
More ability to use weapons as designed? Maybe, but i just don't think putin cares very much.


What other tools might trump/west use for leverage? There is nothing.

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Correct. People were confident that the sanctions would force Russia to back off. Russia exports as much oil now as they did before the war. His gas exports are significantly lower and he doesn't give a crap. This is Russia real gdp since the war:

-1.25% (2022)
3.65% (2023)
4.3% (2024)
1.5% (2025 projection)

It's easy, tell Putin that Ukraine gets more support of US intelligence and and long range missiles.

When Moscow gets hit like Kiev, things will change. That's leverage. Regurgitating every Russian talking point is not.

ABATTBQ11 said:

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Ellis Wyatt said:

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Zelenskyy and the democrats ****ed around. This is all much less fun for them without a blank check from the American people for their money laundering.

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If this were true, shouldn't Trump be blowing the lid on it to own the libs and Zelensky? How is it that this keeps getting repeated ad infinitum, but no one, including those in the Trump admin with access to all the records and everything else, doesn't do anything about it?

It's almost like it's just blind rhetoric not based in reality...

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Please explain how you "blow the lid on corruption" when there was ZERO oversight and no strings attached to the money we sent them. What records do you think the clown show that was the Biden admin kept on all that money especially when we know they received massive kickbacks as well. Hell, Zelensky himself said he doesn't know where half the money went.

FIDO_Ags said:

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It's easy, tell Putin that Ukraine gets more support of US intelligence and and long range missiles.

When Moscow gets hit like Kiev, things will change. That's leverage. Regurgitating every Russian talking point is not.

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Lets not and let it play out without us spending any money.

FIDO_Ags said:

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It's easy, tell Putin that Ukraine gets more support of US intelligence and and long range missiles.

When Moscow gets hit like Kiev, things will change. That's leverage. Regurgitating every Russian talking point is not.

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If all you got is "Russian talking points" please move along.

Look at my posting history. I'm unabashedly pro Ukraine. I think russia and putin should diaf, preferably yesterday. But no later than tomorrow.

I don't disagree it would be uncomfortable for putin to have Moscow start to be indiscriminately blown up as they have done to Kiev. I'd welcome it. I dont think it would be uncomfortable enough to bring the war to an end.

This entire conflict i have wanted the west to call putins bluff on everything. Instead, the west slowed played it, hoping that the Ukrainians could defeat Russia outright with meager help.

By the time the west got serious, Russia went from incompetent to not so incompetent. Weapons won't win this war for Ukraine, though they will maintain the status-quo. The status quo is thousands of ukrianians dying weekly and thousands more Russians dying ever week while the Russian military makes slight gains.

The only thing I see happening here is a bunch of unrealistic demands by the west/Ukraine. If I'm putin, I laugh at them, because there's nothing Ukraine has proved it can do to remove me from their country.

That's why I believe we're at the point of either cede land and end the war, or send western troops to fight and get it over with. Seeing how there's no appetite to send western troops, it kinda narrows the options down.

However, by all means, start carpet bombing Moscow and see if it works. I'd do it tomorrow.

FIDO_Ags said:

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It's easy, tell Putin that Ukraine gets more support of US intelligence and and long range missiles.

When Moscow gets hit like Kiev, things will change. That's leverage. Regurgitating every Russian talking point is not.

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So let's escalate this thing! Brilliant!

Quote:

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Please explain how you "blow the lid on corruption" when there was ZERO oversight and no strings attached to the money we sent them. What records do you think the clown show that was the Biden admin kept on all that money especially when we know they received massive kickbacks as well. Hell, Zelensky himself said he doesn't know where half the money went.

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Since you said "we know they received massive kickbacks", there must be some records available to the AG's office and now that Bondi is in charge the investigations will commence.

So let's escalate this thing! Brilliant!

Now you're starting to get it. That is the one hand neither the Biden or Trump has played. Leave it on the table so Putin has to decide. Putin talks tough so why can't we. Cuban Missile Crisis made the Russians blink so they're just as worried about escalation as the West.

FIDO_Ags said:

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Quote:

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Please explain how you "blow the lid on corruption" when there was ZERO oversight and no strings attached to the money we sent them. What records do you think the clown show that was the Biden admin kept on all that money especially when we know they received massive kickbacks as well. Hell, Zelensky himself said he doesn't know where half the money went.

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Since you said "we know they received massive kickbacks", there must be some records available to the AG's office and now that Bondi is in charge the investigations will commence.

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Yeah I'm sure the kickbacks are labeled as such. Dems are stupid but not THAT stupid.

Sure, you can keep believing we sent them billions with no strings attached or oversight and nobody got their beaks wet. What color is the sky in your world?

I agree the Ukrainians don't have the assets to remove Russian from their soil, but is also equally clear the Russia lacks the capability (or the will) to seize more than they have.

Blue. How about yours?

FIDO_Ags said:

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Blue. How about yours?

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Grey right now, it's overcast.

Logos Stick said:

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FIDO_Ags said:

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It's easy, tell Putin that Ukraine gets more support of US intelligence and and long range missiles.

When Moscow gets hit like Kiev, things will change. That's leverage. Regurgitating every Russian talking point is not.

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So let's escalate this thing! Brilliant!

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More arms isn't going to escalate anything. Putin drew a bunch of lines that we crossed and nothing.

The one thing that I think could escalate things would be Trump's idea to get our hands on Uke minerals. We know that's a large part of Putin's goal. To jump in front and snatch it from him, while establishing an interest on his border, would not sit well. Much larger escalation than providing arms. But people are so Trump blind that they can't even see it.

So ypu want Russia to voluntarily remove themselves?

Letting the Russian citizens feel terror bombing like the Ukrainians get puts pressure on Putin. Everyday Russians aren't feeling the war.

I agree on the minerals but ask, why not both? Outside of questionably ineffective sanctions, the west has put no real pressure on Russia proper.

Trump rebukes Putin for latest attack on Kiev. TERROR

They voluntarily invaded a sovereign nation, no reason they can't voluntarily leave.

They withdrew from Afghanistan when that war became unpopular in Russia.

Thanks for posting 740! Maybe there will be a change in tone from the administration.

FIDO_Ags said:

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They voluntarily invaded a sovereign nation, no reason they can't voluntarily leave.

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Sure . But, here in reality, why would he?

Its time for the west to **** or get off the pot

And all the same, why does the west have to **** or get off the pot. This has become a talking point but there is no incentive for the west to stop it as long as it's contained to Russia and Ukraine.

And the war thus far has been contained to Ukraine and Russia and contrary to what others on this board think, let the Russians use up their military and treasure in a dead end war. Better for the west if we allow Ukraine to buy our more capable weapons system. Then we test and perfect them on a modern battlefield (even though it resembles WW I at this point)

FIDO_Ags said:

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And all the same, why does the west have to **** or get off the pot. This has become a talking point but there is no incentive for the west to stop it as long as it's contained to Russia and Ukraine.

And the war thus far has been contained to Ukraine and Russia and contrary to what others on this board think, let the Russians use up their military and treasure in a dead end war. Better for the west if we allow Ukraine to buy our more capable weapons system. Then we test and perfect them on a modern battlefield (even though it resembles WW I at this point)

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Because Europe probably cannot do it on its own, and therefore the usa must be involved.

Because the American people don't want to spend money on it in forever, and the current admin doesn't appear to want to spend any more on it

I get it that it's relatively small beans as a part of the budget. But, many americans see people in North Carolina still living in tents and have trouble squaring us sending billions overseas.

CS78 said:

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Crap like that is why every country in the world knows all they have to do with us is wait us out. Usually it comes from an administration change but this is supposed to be the same administration.

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Hmm..

wondering if the Houthis in Yemen the last 25 days share this attitude that they "just have to wait us out"



or all the countries running to make new trade deals with the Trump Administration.

or the thousands of Feds looking for new jobs.

CS78 said:

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Logos Stick said:

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FIDO_Ags said:

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It's easy, tell Putin that Ukraine gets more support of US intelligence and and long range missiles.

When Moscow gets hit like Kiev, things will change. That's leverage. Regurgitating every Russian talking point is not.

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So let's escalate this thing! Brilliant!

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More arms isn't going to escalate anything. Putin drew a bunch of lines that we crossed and nothing.

The one thing that I think could escalate things would be Trump's idea to get our hands on Uke minerals. We know that's a large part of Putin's goal. To jump in front and snatch it from him, while establishing an interest on his border, would not sit well. Much larger escalation than providing arms. But people are so Trump blind that they can't even see it.

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US arms that can hit Moscow - and do hit Moscow - will escalate things. See bold above.

74OA said:

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Trump rebukes Putin for latest attack on Kiev. TERROR

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So what? That was a weak rebuke after Zelensky's theatrics yesterday. Russia has been 'attacking Kiev' I have read for years now. Nothing on the presidential palace, of course, despite Zelensky's obvious fandom of artwork depicting a burning Kremlin.

Trump needs to keep communications open if he's going to try to talk to both sides, of course, but ultimately the response will be to walk away from the Kiev regime. To expect otherwise is akin to blaming Trump for not answering in the negative to this absurd question:

WATCH 🔶

Reporter: “Today you told Vladimir Putin to stop with the attacks. Do you think he'll listen to you?”

Trump: “I do, yeah” pic.twitter.com/7LeCh9UrRo

— Polymarket Intel (@PolymarketIntel) April 24, 2025

Trump is trying to do what he can, despite the 'harder to deal with' Zelensky:

🇺🇸🇺🇦 Bloomberg: US to demand Putin accept Ukraine’s right to its own military in peace talks, a shift from his demilitarization goal. Trump admin also seeks Zaporizhzhia plant returned and put under US control, Dnieper access, and Kharkiv land back. pic.twitter.com/Vn3pD1uNVT

— Faytuks Network (@FaytuksNetwork) April 24, 2025

It's just not popular in the war press, which until recently was largely funded by our war machine (USAID).

That's quite a response to a post simply pointing out that Trump can occasionally be even-handed in his treatment of both sides.

Count me in as pro escalation. Russia really can't escalate any more, so i dont see another option if the current terms of ending the war are unacceptable to Ukraine, Europe or america.

74OA said:

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That's quite a response to a post simply pointing out that Trump can occasionally be even-handed in his treatment of both sides.

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That's quite a disingenuous characterization of your comments/position in the past couple hours, or any day, regarding Trump's treatment of both sides.

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Trump's team has completely bungled negotiations by accepting Russian claims at face value. It doesn't create momentum for peace but does almost guarantee future Russian aggression.

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I don't think they have "bungled" anything.

I think this is the exact result Tulsi et al want.

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It has been painful to watch.

"Witkoff continues to be so visibly outplayed by the Russians,"

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Trump is doing the right thing, getting us out of Ukraine/Kiev funding/support, and trying to promote a peace deal to end the war based on reality. That's what the bottom line is, despite your 'incongruous' thoughts as to his evenhandedness this am, imho. And that's an analysis I won't shy away from, in any discussion.

FIDO_Ags said:

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It's easy, tell Putin that Ukraine gets more support of US intelligence and and long range missiles.

When Moscow gets hit like Kiev, things will change. That's leverage. Regurgitating every Russian talking point is not.

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what happens when Russia responds by giving long range missiles to Iran to strike American targets?

how many American missiles would you like to hit Moscow before Moscow decides to retaliate?

I'd say bring it. I dont think russia would be so blatant. But, if they were to do so, and then Iran have the audcaity to strike the usa, then good bye Iran.

Trump tweets 'Vladimir STOP' today after Moscow blasts Kiev. Is this what he is reduced to? 'stop' pleas over social media? Vlad, please stop.

Trump misplayed this IMO. Should have applied the pressure PRIVATELY on Ukraine with threats of abandoning them to bring them to the negotiation table, instead of acting like they hated Zelensky the most while treating Putin with kid gloves.

Trump took all the leverage of continued U.S. support of Ukraine off the table on Day 1, giving Russia no incentive to take Trump or peace negotiations seriously. That is 'the art of the deal'? Reduce/Eliminate your leverage on Day 1?

I would be willing to bet Putin and his cronies are sipping Vodka laughing about Trump's negotiating approach and his 'Vlad, STOP' tweets.

CS78 said:

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Yeah, sounds more like a surrender. Trump is punishing Ukraine for the Democrats corruption. He didn't enter the negotiations in good faith. I used to be sure the Trump Russia thing was a huge gaslighting. This has been so lopsided, I'm no longer so sure.

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I disagree. Ukraine is being punished for its own corruption. Democrats (and others) were involved, but Ukraine was a den of sin for decades and it appears the chickens have come home to roost.

That assumes there was any real leverage to begin with. Hard to remove something that doesn't really exist.