W said:

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so much talk about Putin...

how is anyone going to get Zelenskyy to stop the war?

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Suspend all military intelligence for a bit, bring him to the WH and do a public dogpile on him, tell him that he is nothing without the U.S., just a speck of dirt on the bottom of Trump's shoe, and treat him as though he is the worst compared to Putin? Oh wait, already tried that...

BoydCrowder13 said:

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Who?mikejones! said:

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BoydCrowder13 said:

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Trump has looked really weak on Putin this time around.

He has been tough on China, at least economically, but is bizarrely deferential to Russia.

I understand that this is a war he never wanted to be involved with but the fact is, we are. And he made loud promises about resolving it quickly. So far, Russia has come out on top.

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Russia holds the cards. I'm not sure how one could end this war without Russia getting most of what it wants.

Ukraine is nothing without its western support. With it, it's at best stationary.

I know a big talking point right now is Crimea and how trump is going to cede Crimea wholly to Russia. What's another realistic option that Russia would or should accept. Ukriane isnt capable of taking it back. Europe/usa are unwilling to take it back. So, what incentive is there for Russia to willingly give it back or make it quasi independent?

The entire war is the same. What incentive is there/who is going to force russia to give up some of their ill gotten gains. Ukraine can't. Europe/usa are unwilling.

I think Trump has rightly calculated this war doesn't end unless Russia appears to get most, if not all, it wants. Otherwise, it's just an endless grinding of ukriane and western money/resources.

Trump has indeed looked weak. So did Biden. So did obama. So does Germany, France, Britain and everyone allied with ukriane. Non of them are willing to do the things that would truly make it possible for Ukraine to regain the upper hand. Putin clearly is fine with send thousands to their deaths in exchange for incremental gains and/or stagnation.

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Continues to set a bad precedent. As you said, Putin doesn't care about sacrificing his own people. And he is likely going to get what he wants here. So what is to stop him from pulling this crap every few years. Taking more and more of Eastern Europe back?

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I think if that is truly a concern, then the collective west needs to stop ***** footing around. Euro/the usa won't stop putin until they decide it's time to stop the proxy wars and engage in direct conflict.

Let's say that Trump makes a "bad" deal for Ukraine and cedes putin everything he wants.

I'd immediately do the following:
1. Build up forces in every country bordering Russia or it's allies
2. Invite every country not already in nato to join
3. Invite every country not in the eu to join
4. Immediately stop purchasing all energy from russia
5. Euros spend at least 4% on their military
6. Immediately grow euro military forces as fast as possible both in weaponry and manpower
7. Have 100s of training exercises with euro allies in their countries as often as reasonably possible.

Essentially, make it absolutely clear there will be no more military expansionism allowed.

I'd add, if we really think this ukriane war is simply the 1st (or 3rd) action of a wider Russian expansion, the time to stop it is now. That only can be had by introducing euro/nato/usa forces to the conflict. But I've yet to hear anyone seriously want this.

Could make him wear a suit next time, and not check in with the treasonous Dems beforehand, as though they know how to 'deal with' President Donald Trump. They may see each other at Francis' funeral, will be curious if Z-man wears a suit to that.

⚡️ Possible meeting with Zelensky at Pope Francis' funeral in Rome, Trump says.

U.S. President Donald Trump said on April 25 that he may meet with President Volodymyr Zelensky in Rome on April 26 during the funeral of Pope Francis.https://t.co/LABQ0dJVpk

— The Kyiv Independent (@KyivIndependent) April 25, 2025

🇺🇸🇺🇦 | US President Trump: Ukraine, headed by Volodymyr Zelenskyy, has not signed the final papers on the very important Rare Earths Deal with the United States. It is at least three weeks late. pic.twitter.com/kYiGjtme72

— Status-6 (Military & Conflict News) (BlueSky too) (@Archer83Able) April 25, 2025

Cutting off all ISR support at this point is probably the right course of action, imho. And end any US support/funding for that big Nato base in Romania, as well as war coordination via Ramstein.

Wasn't that lunch with a bunch of Senators before his visit at the WH that day with several Senators on both sides (GOP and Dem). I definitely recall it mentioned that Lindsey Graham was there. And wasn't it reported those Senators warned him to try to avoid happening what happened.

So the 'treacherous Dems' thing seems...well...exaggerated. Unless you meant 'Treacherous Senators' instead of Dems.

The suit thing...don't care. Musk has been wearing T-shirts and baseball caps in cabinet meetings and Kid Rock snapping poses in the Oval office in his casual ware. Zelensky hasn't worn a suit visiting any head of state in 3 years during this whole thing, it has been his 'war costume' that he wears everywhere so whatever.

Mike is moving in the right direction with this line of thinking. At some point pressure needs to be put on Putin snd Russian to remind him that he opened the can of worms and the world may look different when it's done.

Putin's calculus is to keep the west at bay by simply mentioning nukes. Thus far it has worked but he needs to be reminded that's his only card. NATO as it stands right now can push the Russians out of Ukraine. Russia lacks the capability to invade elsewhere at this time. Since they lack the ability to fight a combined arms war, that means the majority of his man power needs are in Ukraine. NATO merely needs to remind Putin of Russia's shortcomings militarily, of which there are many.

Fascinating to me that so many, including Trump, cave to Putin's rhetoric. That play can work both ways.

To be fair, I'm not moving that way. It's where I've been for a while now.

I think ukriane is a lost cause if the west isn't willing to physically engage. Therefore, any threats made by the west, trump, etc., are pretty hollow, imo.

I totally agree with your "nukes" comment. Any mention of that just shuts the west down.

Who?mikejones! said:

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To be fair, I'm not moving that way. It's where I've been for a while now.

I think ukriane is a lost cause if the west isn't willing to physically engage. Therefore, any threats made by the west, trump, etc., are pretty hollow, imo.

I totally agree with your "nukes" comment. Any mention of that just shuts the west down.

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Absolutely it does. Putin correctly assumes that no western country is willing to risk nuclear war over Ukraine. I sure as hell am not. I said three weeks into this war that there was a tragic inevitability of Russia taking a piece of Ukraine. Putin wants it far more than we are willing to risk defending it.

I understand. As long as putin uses the word "nukes" as a cudgel, he can practically take what he wants. I dont think he would engage in a nuclear war myself, but, so long as western leaders are too fearful to find out, they will ultimately let Putin do what he wants.

That's why putin will win. The west has a red line of even talking about nuclear war. Putin doesn't and uses the mere suggestion as a weapon against western action. So long as that's the case, then the status quo will likely remain

Who?mikejones! said:

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I understand. As long as putin uses the word "nukes" as a cudgel, he can practically take what he wants. I dont think he would engage in a nuclear war myself, but, so long as western leaders are too fearful to find out, they will ultimately let Putin do what he wants.

That's why putin will win. The west has a red line of even talking about nuclear war. Putin doesn't and use the mere suggestion as a weapon against western action. So long as that's the case, then the status quo will likely remain

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This is pretty much where I've been since this whole thing started. I never could make sense of why so many started waving Ukrainian flags when the inevitable ending was so obvious. It made 0 sense to me until the extent of the USAID funded propaganda was fully revealed.

Its almost like we gotta go back to a cold war footing.

Isolate, innovate, re-armor, build up forces, reinstate operation chrome dome, etc.

Get the best deal available for Ukraine, which is most likely freezing the lines exactly where they are and then getting them western support to clean up and re arm. Then isolate Russia from the rest of the world while making it very uninviting for putin to attempt another attempt at Ukraine or anywhere else.

Who?mikejones! said:

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Its almost like we gotta go back to a cold war footing.

Isolate, innovate, re-armor, build up forces, reinstate operation chrome dome, etc.

Get the best deal available for Ukraine, which is most likely freezing the lines exactly where they are and then getting them western support to clean up and re arm. Then isolate Russia from the rest of the world while making it very uninviting for putin to attempt another attempt at Ukraine or anywhere else.

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100% agree with this.

If the battle lines are frozen where they are today I would hardly consider this a win for Putin. It was not his objective and he lost a hell of a lot to take over 20% of Ukraine. It would be like us invading Canada and ending up with one province all the while loosing hundreds of thousands of men, decimating our military hardware and wreaking havoc on our economy. Yea great win by Putin. And we still have the ability to make it much worse for him without any direct involvement if we choose. Trump is bailing Putin out as much as he's abandoning Ukraine.
ETA they all may be corrupt but Putin is pure evil

A positive Russian spin:

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The latest round of talks between the Russian leadership and Witkoff confirm that Washington is staying the course outlined above. More broadly again, it also means that the US is not abandoning the style of its latest peace proposal for the Ukraine War. The latter is reported to offer a freezing of current lines on the ground, the long overdue to Ukraine's NATO perspective (which, if it had come in late 2021 could have prevented the war's large-scale escalation), sanctions lifting, as well as recognizing Crimea as Russian.

[url=https://www.rt.com/russia/616284-trump-envoy-moscow-putin/][/url]
These terms do not, actually, coincide with all of Russia's demands. But they try to meet Russian concerns as never before. As Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov has pointed out, Trump is unique among Western leaders in acknowledging the root causes of the war. In that sense, the US peace proposals show not only that Washington is now realistic about the situation on the ground (heavily in Russia's favor), but also that Trump's administration is principally ready to shape its concrete policy according to the insight referred to by Lavrov.

That leaves, as far as the Ukraine War is concerned, two key questions: Will Trump follow through by withholding further military deliveries and crucial intelligence support to Kiev, and if so, when? Second, what are the NATO-EU Europeans going to do or not do? While they still seem to be sticking to their rhetoric of blocking a path to peace, there are also signs that their misguided and harmful (for Ukraine most of all) resolve is crumbling: Britain is preparing the ground for explicitly giving up on silly schemes of sending troops to Ukraine, Polish President Andrzej Duda has recognized the fact that Ukraine has to make concessions to Russia, former NATO general secretary and uber-hawk Jens Stoltenberg has said the same, and current NATO figurehead Mark Rutte is demonstratively praising Trump for "breaking the deadlock."

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Meanwhile, laughably…maybe the Euro's will give him guarantees akin to what they give Israel.

Zelensky demands better-than Israel-style support from US, after rejecting Trump.

“Discussions in London have focused on security guarantees from the United States. We hope them to be at least as robust as those provided to Israel,” Zelensky said. pic.twitter.com/af1xX5Axay

— Alternative News (@AlternatNews) April 26, 2025

Anyway, Tucker has an interview out with Patrick Lancaster this weekend. Listening to it some now…some good points, biased obviously.

Over the past years, countless American journalists have embedded with Zelensky’s military. On the Russian side, there’s only one: Patrick Lancaster.

(0:00) Introduction
(1:15) The War Started Much Earlier Than You Think
(5:07) Ukrainian Attacks on the Hometown of Lancaster’s… pic.twitter.com/dDlkpGc9vZ

— Tucker Carlson (@TuckerCarlson) April 25, 2025

Trump not so happy with the NYT's Peter Baker, Obama biographer.

No matter what deal I make with respect to Russia/Ukraine, no matter how good it is, even if it’s the greatest deal ever made, The Failing New York Times will speak BADLY of it. Liddle’ Peter Baker, the very biased and untalented writer for The Times, followed his Editor’s…

— Donald J. Trump Posts From His Truth Social (@TrumpDailyPosts) April 26, 2025

Who?mikejones! said:

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Its almost like we gotta go back to a cold war footing.

Isolate, innovate, re-armor, build up forces, reinstate operation chrome dome, etc.

Get the best deal available for Ukraine, which is most likely freezing the lines exactly where they are and then getting them western support to clean up and re arm. Then isolate Russia from the rest of the world while making it very uninviting for putin to attempt another attempt at Ukraine or anywhere else.

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Couldn't agree more. Pooty-Poot needs to learn his place in the world, and regardless of how much pathetic 3rd-world tin-pot dictator false bravado he pushes, in the really real world, he's our little beech when push comes to shove. And it's long past due that we shove TF on him.

Touchy much, Kerry?

Look how triggered John Kerry gets when MSNBC's Chris Jansing reminds him that he was Secretary of State when Russia annexed Crimea. pic.twitter.com/eCbbu5lgdH

— Steve Guest (@SteveGuest) April 25, 2025

Quote:

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Couldn't agree more. Pooty-Poot needs to learn his place in the world, and regardless of how much pathetic 3rd-world tin-pot dictator false bravado he pushes, in the really real world, he's our little beech when push comes to shove. And it's long past due that we shove TF on him.

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And Putin knows this which is why he mentioned nukes three years ago. That's his most dangerous course of action (COA), but there are whole lot of other COAs to consider be for you get to that. Trump seems to be slowly figuring this out and hope that he applies more pressure.

Putin also knows that no Russia is worse than a Russia without Ukraine so nukes is a low probably event. It's time for Trump to remind Putin of that.

BoydCrowder13 said:

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Eventually you'd think this would bleed Russia dry.

They have lost hundreds of thousands of men and have people fleeing the county that oppose the war.

Their population is the same as it was 35 years ago.

It is crazy to me that a country with the population of Mexico and the GDP of Texas is allowed this much sway. The power of nukes and Putin's rhetoric.

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I don't think they have been sending in professional soldiers but poorly trained and equipped draftees. I've read that they mostly are from rural areas or are ethnic minorities from central Asia. If he is sparing the sons of relatively middle-class families in St. Petersberg and Moscow, the war may actually be strengthening Putin's hold on power.

Let them fight it out. Who cares who wins.

Not the worst sentiment, but a trade deal with Russia would benefit us, imho, and end the bloodshed faster. Peter Hitchens is right (RIP Christopher).

The articlehttps://t.co/38Dtatn7h9

— John Reacher 🇵🇸🕊 (@John_Reacher_) April 28, 2025

More conditions? One Russian paper this morning: “For Moscow it’s crucial to secure a many-fold reduction in the size of the Ukrainian army & a major reconstruction of the Ukrainian political system.” #ReadingRussia pic.twitter.com/HIhxk0TEOq

— Steve Rosenberg (@BBCSteveR) April 28, 2025

Ukraine is a quasi nation-state with no freedom of speech, press, religion, nor movement (they have sealed the border so that Ukrainians cannot leave).

Russians are not our enemy. We shouldn’t be helping to kill them. https://t.co/D4YJquJ3Lg

— David Sacks (@DavidSacks) April 27, 2025

Rumors of a large scale crossing of the Dnieper (toward Odessa) but probably a smaller-scale operation.

You mean they're going to cross the river towards Odessa in the same area Ukraine kicked them out of over a year ago?

No.

Another ceasefire declared by Putin. May 7-10.

🇷🇺🇺🇦 ANOTHER CEASEFIRE: Putin declared a ceasefire on the days of the 80th anniversary of Victory in the Great Patriotic War (WW2) 7th to 11th May

By decision of the President of the Russian Federation, Supreme Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation… pic.twitter.com/2Db4RSbwrJ

— Lord Bebo (@MyLordBebo) April 28, 2025

No reason for Ukraine to adhere to this new brief ceasefire from Putin. Still need to get the invaders out of the country.

Noticed that North Korea and Russia have both now admitted in public that North Korea soldiers have been fighting over there helping the Russians against Ukraine. Putin in a statement thanked them for their service. Lil Rocket Man says sending 4000 more troops over there to replace combat losses.

I remember when this first came up that all the social media types making money off pushing pro-Russian talking points (Ret. Colonel McGregor, Judge Napolitano and the regulars who come on his show, Scott Ritter, the Iranian Dialogue works guy, etc) saying back when that first came up that North Koreans over there in combat against Ukraine was western propaganda. They either were not there at all or just training over in East Russia, etc.

and there were some posters on this board who seemingly take Russias side in this at every turn also peddling those narratives.

Welp…yep…North Koreans vs Ukrainians troops has been a real thing. And what has Russia been giving North Korea in return for their service is a good question…cause you know….Lil Rocket Man is a guy the U.S. has to keep an eye on regarding his military capabilities ambitions.

Putin is not going to allow a "2nd afghan" loss to his country, he is all in and will placate some but will never agree to a peace deal, a peace deal would be as bad as the collapse of USSR.

1st term Trump would have tomahawked a bunch of North Koreans in Ukraine.

I don't know if you saw but the missile that killed all the civilians in Kyiv was North Korean made. Supposedly containing a high percentage of US components. Regardless of how you feel about this war, that needs to end. Our enemies should not be sourcing long range missile parts from us.

There's been a lot of silliness about NorKo troops, so I guess I can somewhat agree on that. Clearly, some were employed in Kursk, though I am skeptical it wasn't mostly field artillery units. I'm not interested in 'selling you' on a narrative (or competing with one) but it's all in all pretty inconsequential, and likely the North Koreans sought to gain some credit/combat experience in exchange for their armament support (mainly artillery shells; throwing some troops on a trans-Siberian rail line from Korea to Kursk with their howitzers etc wasn't a big leap). It's pure propaganda then back home in Pyongyang. Another negative tangential side effect to the prolonged war is now the likelihood of a more modernized NorKo ballistic missile/drone/Air Force vs. if the war could have ended earlier. The Ukrainians have sporadically employed foreign mercenaries/volunteers all over the lines, often with tragic results.

Ultimately, the Ukrainian Kursk disaster was in my opinion an absurdity the Ukrainian leadership cooked up to show 'independence' from Rammstein/Nato military guidance. It made some sense then (to the Russians) to feed the North Korean folks into that, as it was pretty easy pickings (something like 22:1 casualty rates, based on exchanges) and closer to Russian logistics lines to support, plus the Russians didn't have to pull any real forces from elsewhere.

Two known and officially stated goals for Ukrainian Kursk suicide safari were:

▪️To divert Russian forces from other parts of Donbass to slow down their advance
▪️Using it as a bargaining chip for territory exchange in possible negotiations

None of these goals have been met.… pic.twitter.com/RAgJHpv2et

— Olga Bazova (@OlgaBazova) April 27, 2025

Both sides over the course of a year or so employ similar tactics, ultimately, with the resources they have. And assorted competing narratives don't really add up otherwise as to 'desperation.' The map inexorably drones on.

"The AFU are masters at innovation" propaganda cycle:

- Russia invents unconventional tactics (turtle tanks, netting the road against drones, using ATVs and motorcycles for assaults, etc.)
- 🇺🇦 stans make fun of it
- The AFU adapts it
- 🇺🇦 stans: "The AFU is so innovative and… pic.twitter.com/ytwrwJDMYq

— Olga Bazova (@OlgaBazova) April 27, 2025

docb said:

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No reason for Ukraine to adhere to this new brief ceasefire from Putin. Still need to get the invaders out of the country.

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With what?

docb said:

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No reason for Ukraine to adhere to this new brief ceasefire from Putin. Still need to get the invaders out of the country.

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Not happening. The ground Russia stands on is their country now and there's no way Ukraine can get it back.

The only thing Ukraine controls is how much more ground they want to give to Russia in the immediate future.

But, I'm sure more Americans bellyaching about withholding some magical weapons and war-altering super intelligence will somehow turn the tide on a war that's been lost for two years.

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Ukraine is a quasi nation-state with no freedom of speech, press, religion, nor movement (they have sealed the border so that Ukrainians cannot leave).

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Now compare them to Russia. Putin has been a dictator for much longer. You think Russia has independent press? Freedom of speech in Russia?
Religion? They clamp down on non Russian Orthodox faiths.

You have gone from claiming you just don't want US funds sent Ukraine to being fully vested in Russia as a example of what you think the world is better off being like. All of the things you get from your various daily Russian talking points could be said about Russia as well.

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You have gone from claiming you just don't want US funds sent Ukraine to being fully vested in Russia as a example of what you think the world is better off being like. All of the things you get from your various daily Russian talking points could be said about Russia as well.

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Putin won re-election by a wide margin last year (yet again; he's very popular there), and in any case our allies have less to do with freedom/democracy than common interests. How many Democrats have ever stood up to the Saudi's, or fascists running places like Havana or the UK? One almost has to go back to JFK.

To the extent it matters, I peruse both sides news coverage. I just don't see a need to echo the USAID/Kiev/Nato talking points ad nauseam, as others tend to cover that quite thoroughly. I have no idea what your bolded text references to my posts, so whatever. From a trade/diplomatic partnership perspective Russia would be a better ally than adversary/part of an adversarial block. Our real enemies these days are in Tehran and Beijing, namely. Both of those are key Democrat partners/allies, and not just Lurch (who served in Vietnam oh btw) or Newsom, Biden etc.

Kim Jong Un is about as elected as Putin. Even Stalin was "elected".

Why do we need trade with Russia more than any other country? Why are they special to you? They recently seized a large American owned company with no compensation, do you support that action? Anywhere else in the world and Trump would have been tweeting out fire over it.

Do you really think that Russia is more free than the UK?

We are at the time right now that the Katyn massacres took place. That is what happens when the Russians take over others. What did the Poles do to deserve that?