***Official 2025 Ryder Cup Thread***

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ddub96
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In reply to cb1919 • 8:29p, 9/29/25
AG
That is unbelievable. I was there Friday and Saturday and there were some real odd decisions. My group was talking about it so no Monday morning quarterbacking here.

1. Course set up - too easy, rain made it worse, should have been just south of a us open type set up

2. Cam young not going out with Bryson as a New Yorker with the course record at a course he knows and loves

3. Morikawa and English. Enough said. Then to double down on it was criminal.

4. Scottie not teeing off on odds makes zero sense.

Look the euros played out if their minds but we did everything we could to make it as low pressure on them as we could.
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cb1919
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In reply to 98Ag99Grad • 8:51p, 9/29/25
AG
Yep that's what they said
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'03ag
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In reply to cb1919 • 9:40p, 9/29/25
cb1919 said:
They said on the NLU recap that Scheffler had to call the captains Friday night to say he should be teeing off on the odds
what's the reasoning here?
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cb1919
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In reply to '03ag • 9:43p, 9/29/25
AG
'03ag said:
cb1919 said:
They said on the NLU recap that Scheffler had to call the captains Friday night to say he should be teeing off on the odds
what's the reasoning here?


On why should tee off on the odds? The stats said for alt shot the longer hitter should tee off on the odds. There was an advantage off the tee and I believe some longer approach shots into the greens on the evens.
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CapCityAg89
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9:03a, 9/30/25
AG
Really really good article.

TLDR - US is just unserious about the Ryder Cup.

https://www.skratch.golf/news/pro-golf/us-ryder-cup-loss-future-pgaa-ryder-cup-strategy-bethpage-2025
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98Ag99Grad
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In reply to CapCityAg89 • 9:17a, 9/30/25
AG
Definitely agree about a 6 year term for the next captain, whether that is Tiger or not.
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JCA1
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9:20a, 9/30/25
AG
I know I'm beating a dead horse but I woke up this morning and still cannot believe the guy he put in the envelope to sit in case of an injury by the other side is the same guy he sent out twice in foursomes. I don't know that you can come up with a more incomprehensible strategy than that.
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10:04a, 9/30/25
AG
The thing I keep coming back to is more macro than the pairings decisions, roster bubble selections, Scottie's struggles, course setup, etc.

The Euros have better infrastructure in place to be on the cutting edge of strategic shifts than we do. They have better leadership, continuity, and all-around buy-in to their processes. It trickles down.

I was thinking earlier about how Team USA Ryder Cup needs its version of Team USA basketball in 2006. Modernize the team infrastructure and make it more cohesive. Then I realized we kind of already had that with the task force following the 2014 Ryder Cup.

The task force served us well in combatting some of the Euros' longer term edges.

  • They were always more close / had more comradery. We've done work since then to bring our teams closer together. Even though we might not be as "familial" as the Euros, I think our guys have closer bonds than they did back in the Tiger/Phil era.
  • They knew how to setup their home courses to manufacture advantages. We did that well in 2016 and 2021.
After 2021, I think the Euros pushed the envelope and took the strategic and personnel dynamics of the tournament to another level.

  • They recognized that traditional course setup advantages no longer applied and they had to be more nuanced in seeking out advantages. We did not do that this year.
  • Their players, led by Rory, made it their personal mission to treat the Ryder Cup like their most important event of the year and catered their games/schedules to play their best. We've made some small steps in that direction but obviously no where near them.
I think the first bullet above could be neutralized by a Task Force 2.0 of sorts. But then what? We do the same things another couple years until the Euros move the goal post again? Then we react after another home beatdown, when it's too late? This macro trend is more important than captain selection IMO. I really hope we see some sort of evidence that we're going to start taking the "behind the scenes" aspect of the tournament seriously, but I'll believe it when I see it.

Likewise with the players, I'll believe they're willing to treat the Cup as seriously as the Euros when Scottie puts his neck out there and makes it his personal mission, like Rory did. If he does, I think the rest will follow. I don't think it's going to happen but you never know. And I don't mean that to say our guys don't care. I think they do to a very large extent. Just not as much as the Euros.
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Deluxe
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In reply to CapCityAg89 • 10:14a, 9/30/25
AG
CapCityAg89 said:
Really really good article.

TLDR - US is just unserious about the Ryder Cup.

https://www.skratch.golf/news/pro-golf/us-ryder-cup-loss-future-pgaa-ryder-cup-strategy-bethpage-2025

I would love to be wrong about this, but I don't see Tiger as the answer here. I don't see him committing to a 6-year term (like Shipnuk suggests). I don't think his exceptional strengths as a player leant themselves to the Ryder Cup. And I don't have any evidence that he's passionate enough about the event to make it his mission to turn the ship around. He's also about to turn 50 and wants to play more next year... gunning for the US Senior Open to complete his USGA quadfecta. Luckily he can use a cart ha.

I do agree with Shipnuk's second point point below though. Hence my prior post.

Quote:
So where does the U.S. go from here? Woods is likely to be the captain in 2027, the 100 year anniversary of the first Ryder Cup. It is being played at Adare Manor in Ireland, owned by his close friend J.P. McManus. Woods should commit to a six-year term, for starters, at long last giving the U.S. stability at the top. He alone has the juice to demand a long overdue, wholesale reorganization of how the American Ryder Cup team operates.

Control needs to be wrestled away from the lightweights at the PGA of America with the creation of an autonomous, year-round Team USA body. It can be overseen by Azinger, Steve Stricker and Davis Lovethe only winning captains this century.

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Bondag
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10:21a, 9/30/25
AG
The fact that Scottie had to say he wanted the odds or evens is ridiculous. People put more thoughts into a charity foursome than that
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10:26a, 9/30/25
AG
https://golfweek.usatoday.com/story/sports/golf/ryder-cup/2025/09/30/eamon-lynch-ryder-cup-needs-new-vision-u-s-new-owners/86434260007/

I approve of this message.

Quote:
Bethpage '25 was a sharp reminder for the slow learners of Gleneagles '14.

Even the liquored boors at Bethpage could write the script for what will now follow calls for Tiger Woods to lead the team to Ireland in two years, because who has more stature to turn things around? But the U.S. has had plenty of accomplished captains who commanded respect. What it needs is one with a vision for success and the chops to insist it be properly resourced. It needs its Tony Jacklin. If Bradley had a vision, he hasn't articulated it. More importantly, the PGA of America never asked for it. He was offered the job without a single conversation about how he would execute it.

Last week laid bare the institutional weaknesses in how the Ryder Cup is administered on this shore of the Atlantic. One of golf's prime assets was devalued by a garish spectacle of drunken abuse, and more of the same awaits if the PGA Championship goes back to Bethpage in 2033 as scheduled. It's time the PGA of America forged a revenue-sharing deal with a partner better equipped to realize the potential of its championships, and use the generational wealth from that to fund its core trade association mission of supporting members.

Only two entities in golf have the cash reserves to make such an arrangement viable: the PGA Tour and LIV. Only one of them has a measure of organizational competence. The Tour's new CEO, Brian Rolapp, is a deal maker and has billions of investment dollars to spend, but even he would struggle to dislodge the legions of snouts burrowed deep into the PGA of America's trough. And such an acquisition would force an awkward reckoning for Rolapp on the Presidents Cup, the existence of which does nothing to aid the U.S. Ryder Cup effort, and could be credibly argued to undermine it.

The Ryder Cup is a shop window for the sport, and this one left a lousy impression for prospective customers. The best thing for its long-term future is to hang a sign: "Under New Management."

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Deluxe
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10:38a, 9/30/25
AG


Hope this campaign endures
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HeyAbbott
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In reply to Deluxe • 10:39a, 9/30/25
AG
Agree
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aggiegolfer2012
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In reply to CapCityAg89 • 11:06a, 9/30/25
Don't typically enjoy Shipnucks click baity one liners, but he had some good points, maybe the best being the PGA of America being a mess of an organization. The European Tour at least has some tie to their players on a regular basis, even though most of them play here full time with brief runs to Dubai or season ending events.
Look no further than how the PGA Championship is run to see how disorganized they are. Bad courses, meh setups, bad marketing and they've let that thing crumble into pretty clearly the least important major. It would never surpass the other 3, but you could at least make it feel like something. Seems like they play middle man with the tour players on the team that have no real involvement with the PGA of America. As dysfunctional as the TOUR has seems at times, they are at least a lot better off the the PGA who doesn't even have the problem of having to compete with a sovereign wealth fund.

I never appreciate the clips at the players that they don't care or aren't emotionally invested in the event. I don't think we can go from praising guys like Scottie and Xander for being these emotionless killers every other week of the year, and then expect them to just flip a switch and start being outwardly passionate this one week every two years. I think it is pretty clear they care, I think the right players were there outside of maybe one or two, Europe is just better at this form of the game right now. And I'm not sure how to fix it, because the form of golf that our guys excel at is the form of golf that players are remembered for, and they aren't going to make drastic changes for an event that comes around once every two years. Maybe the same reason their emotional style of play helps them in this event, is the reason so many of the Europeans have underachieved in majors, while Americans excel.
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HeyAbbott
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11:09a, 9/30/25
AG
The game of golf has too many organizations across landscape headlined by the PGA Tour and LIV battle. Many of these organizations are old, stoic and driven by stature and money. The PGA Tour would be wise to consolidate some of those organizations into better use along with growing the game of golf globally.
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aggiegolfer2012
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11:10a, 9/30/25
Quote:
The U.S. team still operates as it always has: prone to choosing "savior" captains who can rally the troops; reliant on performative theatrics, as though flag-waving and fist-pumping compensate for the absence of a battle plan; lacking the backroom support apparatus that has propelled Europe's success for the past 30 years; and willfully negligent in applying learnings of what has and hasn't worked into a proven playbook that's portable from team to team.

Love this quote from Eamon's article. We tie everything to passion, thinking that will fix it, when it isn't the problem.
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CapCityAg89
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In reply to 98Ag99Grad • 11:32a, 9/30/25
AG
98Ag99Grad said:
Definitely agree about a 6 year term for the next captain, whether that is Tiger or not.

6 year term.
Dedicated, permanent "Team USA" (both cups).
Cohesive captaincy organization.

I'd also add a revised statistical approach to ranking players for participation by that team USA. I don't want to F with world golf rankings for overall ranking (screw LIV) but so we can settle the whole Brooks or English debate (screw Reed too. Cheater).
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JCA1
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12:32p, 9/30/25
AG
All good points that I will agree with. We definitely are a rudderless ship. But I will add one caveat. The Euros are currently blessed with 2 of the top 3 players in the world who live and die for this event and a 3rd in Fleetwood who's a top 10 guy who turns into a top 5 guy for this event. They're just stacked from a talent and motivation standpoint right now. Those three guys are probably good for 7-9 points themselves. As long as they are in their prime, it's going to be tough sledding no matter what we do.
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cb1919
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In reply to JCA1 • 12:36p, 9/30/25
AG
They definitely have a ton of talent right now, but they still barely won when it was all said and done.
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Bondag
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12:52p, 9/30/25
AG
These guys are together every week. They jump on a private plane to play a round and are back for dinner. Most of them probably have a home base in Florida.

Why aren't we making the pairings a year out so these guys can play 20 rounds together. You would know what the other guy wants so you aren't hitting your drive where you want your second shot, but from where he wants it to give you the 3rd shot you want to hit?
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HouAggie
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In reply to ddub96 • 12:59p, 9/30/25
AG
ddub96 said:
That is unbelievable. I was there Friday and Saturday and there were some real odd decisions. My group was talking about it so no Monday morning quarterbacking here.

1. Course set up - too easy, rain made it worse, should have been just south of a us open type set up

2. Cam young not going out with Bryson as a New Yorker with the course record at a course he knows and loves

3. Morikawa and English. Enough said. Then to double down on it was criminal.

4. Scottie not teeing off on odds makes zero sense.

Look the euros played out if their minds but we did everything we could to make it as low pressure on them as we could.

Why does a harder course setup favor the US?
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JCA1
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In reply to HouAggie • 1:06p, 9/30/25
AG
HouAggie said:
ddub96 said:
That is unbelievable. I was there Friday and Saturday and there were some real odd decisions. My group was talking about it so no Monday morning quarterbacking here.

1. Course set up - too easy, rain made it worse, should have been just south of a us open type set up

2. Cam young not going out with Bryson as a New Yorker with the course record at a course he knows and loves

3. Morikawa and English. Enough said. Then to double down on it was criminal.

4. Scottie not teeing off on odds makes zero sense.

Look the euros played out if their minds but we did everything we could to make it as low pressure on them as we could.

Why does a harder course setup favor the US?


Numbers say we're better tee to green and I think we have a driving accuracy advantage as well (although I can't swear to that). Thick rough and narrower fairways should play to our advantage.

And I'll add, the Euros apparently discovered that their advantage was iron shots from 180 to 200. So, in Rome, they set up the course for a bunch of shots in that range.
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ddub96
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In reply to HouAggie • 2:07p, 9/30/25
AG
See the reply above which is all accurate overall. Additionally the euros typically set their course up with very slow greens by tour standards. We played right into that especially with the rain. They are better putters as well overall so tuck flags making par valued vs just a ton of birdies. Sunday the course played faster and harder than it did on Friday and Saturday and we dominated. If we had set it up properly from the beginning it would have improved our chances. Not saying we win but that combined with some of the pairings was a lot to overcome along with the quality of the euro team and how they played.
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HouAggie
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5:40p, 9/30/25
AG
Gotcha.

I seemed to recall how France supposedly favored Europe bc it was tight and they were more accurate. Of course, we have a somewhat different team now, but that's what i heard then. My gut tells me that course setup for the RC is nothing more than a fractional advantage for either side and it really just comes down to chance; who gets fortunate enough to be hot on a certain 3 days every other year. All the strategizing is just entertainment for the talking heads to Monday morning quarterback things.
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bagger05
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In reply to HouAggie • 7:03p, 9/30/25
AG
They've won 9 of 12. Pretty big sample size for it to only be about who's hot.

I think there are advantages to be had but we just don't seem to put them to work.
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aggiegolfer2012
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In reply to JCA1 • 10:27p, 9/30/25
Maybe 1-12 we are better T2G, but if you look at it closer I think they are more balanced T2G, especially in the sessions where they only had to play 8. We have guys like Morikawa and Bryson who have good final T2G numbers, but it's because they have some kind of super power either off the tee or in approach to make up for their weakness in another aspect, and I think that makes it harder to pair in foursomes vs just having 2 guys that are just super solid at both. It's why Cantlay and Xander is our most-European pair. Both sufficiently long/accurate, both good at approach. We don't even really have a 4th guy like that (maybe Young now) to match with Scottie. They have Hatton, Rahm, McIlroy, Fleetwood, Ludvig and Hovland that fit that mold, and I'd add Rose and Fitz if they are on.

For instance, Bryson is the 4th ranked player T2G. But it's way overloaded on driver. He's +1.68 T2G, 1.5 of that is off the tee, only 0.09 is approach. That would put him last in strokes gained approach on team Europe by a wide margin. Compared to somebody like Fleetwood who is 6th T2G at +1.62, +0.42 OTT and +0.82 approach. And when you look at the guys they rode last week that's what you see. The T2G numbers are similar, but they are more balanced within that.

Then you have guys like Henley and Morikawa that are approach wizards in the season long numbers, but that doesn't account for super wet and long course where they get no roll off the tee and end up 20-30 yards back in a birdie-fest.

Then you'd think Griffin would be a good fit on the approach/distance balance, but he's not good from 150-200 at all and the majority of approaches at Bethpage were from 175-200. Also a good chunk of his T2G strokes gained is around the green, he's great at bogey avoidance. But with how soft and easy it was, that skill was useless.

I agree that our biggest failure was course set up. Just couldn't be a low rough, soft birdie fest. I don't know that with our shorter hitters the rough needed to be excessive, but the course definitely needed to be shorter and firmer, and one of those you couldn't control because of the weather.
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Deluxe
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In reply to aggiegolfer2012 • 4:21a, 10/1/25
AG
Great post
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cb1919
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7:02a, 10/1/25
AG
Suggest a listen to the new NLU pod. A lot of things that have been on this thread with how bad the American plan/system is and has been.

My favorite…..they talked to the stats guy who's helped the Euros on multiple Ryder Cups. He said when the US sent out Phil/Bubba together in Paris he thought we've won, they have no plan.
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bagger05
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7:36a, 10/1/25
AG
When Luke Donald talked about swapping out the bedding at the hotel and blocking the sliver of light that came in under the door it was pretty clear to me that they're doing the "aggregation of marginal gains" that they talk about in the book Atomic Habits.

https://jamesclear.com/marginal-gains

The same thing goes with the golf stat stuff. When they talk about course setup and all that, they're looking for anything that will give them a 1% improvement. No one thing makes much difference but add up a thousand little things and it makes a big difference.

Comes down to culture and leadership. US just doesn't have a system and they do.
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Jawn Dough
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In reply to bagger05 • 9:09a, 10/1/25
bagger05 said:
When Luke Donald talked about swapping out the bedding at the hotel and blocking the sliver of light that came in under the door it was pretty clear to me that they're doing the "aggregation of marginal gains" that they talk about in the book Atomic Habits.

https://jamesclear.com/marginal-gains

The same thing goes with the golf stat stuff. When they talk about course setup and all that, they're looking for anything that will give them a 1% improvement. No one thing makes much difference but add up a thousand little things and it makes a big difference.

Comes down to culture and leadership. US just doesn't have a system and they do.

Maybe it's just a bit of arrogance thinking that we don't need to do all these things that seem inconsequential because we believe we can beat them on talent alone.
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bagger05
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In reply to Jawn Dough • 9:15a, 10/1/25
AG
I think that's very possible. That we think we can kinda show up and wing it.
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JCA1
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10:06a, 10/1/25
AG
Can't recall if this has been mentioned but Johnson Wagner was on the fried egg podcast and gave the stats about how poorly we've played since the advent of the President's Cup in the early 90s. Basically, our guys are expected to do this at the end of every season, while the Euros only do it every other year. He speculated that this leads to a big difference in enthusiasm. The Euros are fresh and fired up and the Americans are thinking "ugh, I already have to do this again." Interesting take.
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Jawn Dough
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In reply to JCA1 • 10:31a, 10/1/25
JCA1 said:
Can't recall if this has been mentioned but Johnson Wagner was on the fried egg podcast and gave the stats about how poorly we've played since the advent of the President's Cup in the early 90s. Basically, our guys are expected to do this at the end of every season, while the Euros only do it every other year. He speculated that this leads to a big difference in enthusiasm. The Euros are fresh and fired up and the Americans are thinking "ugh, I already have to do this again." Interesting take.

Seems like an attitude and entitlement problem that needs some major adjustment.

We're looking everywhere else but inward to figure out why we keep on losing to the Euros.
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JCA1
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In reply to Jawn Dough • 11:41a, 10/1/25
AG
Jawn Dough said:
JCA1 said:
Can't recall if this has been mentioned but Johnson Wagner was on the fried egg podcast and gave the stats about how poorly we've played since the advent of the President's Cup in the early 90s. Basically, our guys are expected to do this at the end of every season, while the Euros only do it every other year. He speculated that this leads to a big difference in enthusiasm. The Euros are fresh and fired up and the Americans are thinking "ugh, I already have to do this again." Interesting take.

Seems like an attitude and entitlement problem that needs some major adjustment.

We're looking everywhere else but inward to figure out why we keep on losing to the Euros.


The heart wants what the heart wants and motivation is a fickle thing. If it doesn't happen organically, it's hard to just summon it (as evidenced by me typing this comment while I should be working).

I think the Euros have historically benefitted from being considered the underdogs, which is great for motivation. And I'm not just talking golf. The USA is the 800 lb gorilla that people would love to knock down a peg.

But to get back to the president's cup, I think the PGAT should offer a partnership to the DPWT where we switch off playing the international team. I'm guessing the DPWT would have no interest in playing in every other president's cup and thinks the current cadence is best for them.
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HouAggie
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In reply to bagger05 • 1:00p, 10/1/25
AG
Lots of great points here, but I respectfully disagree that 9 of 12 is a sufficient sample size, or remotely close to it.

Evaluating the RC overall, I do think that Europe has a much bigger home field advantage than our guys. Most of the European team, even those who live in the US, are much more accustomed to traveling across the pond. So, while playing in NY is a non-factor for them, aside from some rowdy crowds, when our guys have to travel overseas, it makes a significant impact on our performance.

I think we've only won twice in Europe, and it's been a long time.
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